Water stones usage

Re: Water stones usage

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Which stones? The natural stones? I can't imagine a natural stone would be smooth enough to cause this problem, which is called stiction. I've had a horrible time sharpening western tools on the Shaptons (ceramic Japanese waterstones), whereas the Japaense tools glide like crazy, due to their ura.

One solution is to make sure the stones are very wet, as you've done. Another solution is to put shallow scratches/grooves in the stones. Another solution is to use other stones for western tools with flat backs.

Pam

Re: Water stones usage *LINK*

Alberto in Richmond Hill, ON

>Thanks for the suggestions. The stones that I'm using are the ones on the link. The blade I'm sharpening is from the LV 4.5 plane.

Alberto//


LV water stones

Re: Water stones usage

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Seems you're doing it as it should be, so I'd recommend scoring the stones a bit. Might be worth a call to LV, or just wait for Rob Lee to respond here.

Pam

Re: Water stones usage

Gary

>I have both the LV stones and water stones I have obtained directly from Japan and use these stones exclusively for my sharpening. Your experience is normal when you are trying to flatten a significant portion of steel, like the back of plane blades. Like you said, it's more pronounced when using a fine stone. Certainly, you can flatten the back of the blade with the courser stones, but when advancing to the finer grits, polish only the last half inch or so near the edge for the final flattening effect. No need to final polish the entire back side. Hope that helps.

Re: Water stones usage

AD

>Alberto,

This may sound silly but are you trying to lap the entire back of the blade? You really only need to lap the area near the blade edge.

The stones on your link look like the King waterstones which I use. I use a 1200 grit and an 8000 grit. I find that the 8000 can get a little sticky but if you keep plenty of water on it is OK.

Hope this helps.

Andrew

I think what you're seeing is...

Scott in Douglassville, PA

>...a basic suction forming between the relatively large area of blade and the stone. When this happens to me, I generally wipe the stone down, and try to use a little less water.

There's no way I'd score or otherwise gouge any of my stones, BTW, though it may be the (counterintuitively) correct action. You're reducing the amount of stone you have left, and decreasing the available surface area that contacts steel - both bad, in my book.

David Finck method

Moses Yoder in White Pigeon, MI

>In David Finck's book "making and mastering wooden planes", he recommends using a small piece of wood, the same width as the iron and about 6" or 8" long to flatten iron backs. Lay the iron on the stone, the wood peice on top of the iron, and grip the iron and wood together in your right hand (if you're right handed)and put pressure on the other end of the board(overhanging the end of the iron 3-4") with your left hand. Wetting the wood helps the iron to stick to it, I've found, and really makes grinding the back of the iron much easier.

Re: Water stones usage

Ken King

>Alberto,

I agree with Gary and Moses.

Just stick the block of wood onto the blade with a bit of double faced tape.

Instead of scoring the stones, I start each sharpening session by flatening my stones on a sheet of 120 Wet/Dry Paper held to a piece of glass by water. I found that after being in water over night the stones have a scum on them from our tap water. The paper takes that off and gives the stones a little tooth. Only takes a few strokes and they need to be kept flat anyway.

Roughen / Groove Water Stones?

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>There was a thread here in the not-too-distant past about roughening the surface of ultra-fine water stones with some sort of abrasive, perhaps silicon carbide. This evidently solves the sticktion problem. I cannot find it; perhaps someone else can dredge it up.

Probably by Joel

Tom Williams

>I don't recall a recent thread, but I did pick up a tip here from Joel some time ago. He recommended flattening the finer stones with the medium grit powder and stopping there. By not going on to the fine grit powder, small channels will remain under the blade which allow air and water to flow.

I tried this and it does work well, but I now use a slightly modified approach. I skip the medium grit completely when flattening waterstones above 5000. I initially use the coarse grit, but just enough to lay down an even scratch pattern (and of course to get the stone flat, if needed). I then jump straight to the fine powder for the 8000 and 15000 stones. This polishes off the rough peaks that will be in contact with the iron but leaves plenty of channels underneath. I maintain the surface with the fine powder until the scratch pattern diminishes and I notice the stiction returning (this takes a very long time), then I repeat with the coarse grit again.

Tom

Re: Probably by Joel

Tom Williams

>I forgot to mention, someone else here has tried roughening the underside of their (synthetic) waterstone for use with back flattening, while maintaining the top surface as usual for bevels, where stiction is never a problem.

Tom

Re: Probably by Joel

joel

>That is a very interesting approach and may be a good compromise for those wanting to use the grit to create the scratches but also like a smooth surface for the actual sharpening.

Re: Probably by Joel

joel

>This is the theory expounded by the Shapton factory. However it makes no sense to me as during the course of sharpening you should be flipping the blade back and forth as you chase the wire edge (especially on western style steel) and flipping stones over and over seems way too much work.

Thanks for the ideas

Alberto in Richmond Hill, ON

>Thanks guys, I'll try some of the ideas posted so far. I'm sure is my technique. I'll get the handle of it.

Alberto//