Draw Knife Question

Re: Draw Knife Question

Tom in Tipp

>I've used both but the curved one was rather inexpensive from Woodcraft, the straigh one rather pricey from Conover Tools, back when they were still in the Windsor tool business.

I haven't used the curved one in 15 years.

The Windsor Resource site has some toolmakers. If you haven't looked there, I would before I purchased one.

Tom

Re: Draw Knife Question

Jim Crammond in Monroe, Mi.

>Pat,

I took a chairmaking class from Drew Langsner last October in which we used a drawknife extensively. As he explained it, the advantage of a straight drawknife is that it is easier to sharpen because of the flat back and for most projects such as spindles(i.e. small round items) it works fine. The curved drawknife works well when trying to flatten an item becuase the curve allows you to make contact anywhere on the surface.

Around here, drawknives are very common and can be bought at flea markets and country auctions for between $5 and $20 so you may want to get one of each and experriment yourself. Most of the old ones I see have a slight curve, but I do see straight ones too.

What type of shaving horse do you favor, the German(dumbhead) style or the English style?

Jim

Re: Draw Knife Question

kees

>hi,

buy the one of Drew Langsner although it's not cheap

you just have to buy one! I have seen to many with a handfull of drawknives and together they payed the price of one good knife. And it's ready to use, easy to sharpen.... so you save a lot of time.

Also buy the plan of the shavinghorse at Countryworkshops.org

Drew and Brian Boggs -and many others- have invented the wheel already, we pay them some money for that and can immediately have fun.

kees

Re: Draw Knife Question

kees

>BTW the curved ones are easier to manufacture. For a curved drawknife take also a look at Gransforsbruks.

I have that big one but hardly ever use it since I have the straight of Countryworkshops; cut my fingers too often because it's sharped till the handles.

The straight drawknife is also easier to use bevel/bezel-down. As I already wrote it's made by people who are real woodworkers.

Probably the marktet is too small for LV to make a copy.

kees

Re: Draw Knife Question *LINK*

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>You could do some serious damage with on of these:


Barr Tools

To your Wallet !

Todd Hughes

>Kind of rough looking Drawknives but imagine they work OK but have to wonder who would pay that much $ when old original high quality ones in great condition are so common and cheap,[$5-$10]. Don't think most Drawknives on the ebay go for very much and even in the old tool Hell I live in I see lots of them in good condition and priced cheap......Todd

Re: To your Wallet !

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I hear that Barr sells about as many of his tools as he can make. You sure you don't want to get back into blacksmithing full-time? ;-)

Todd & John's Article *LINK*

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I just noticed that the drawknife comments by you and John Aniano have been published in the Articles section.


Buying a Draw Knife Article

Re: To your Wallet !

kees laan

>I can't imaging a fultime woodworker who's buying secondhand at fleemarkets and ebay.

What do you charge per hour?

And for newbies in greenwoodworking: Don't spoil your weekendtime with restoring old tools. You do need just a few tools: drawknife,

saw, small ax, shavinghorse .....

And how much money have you spend/spoiled on tools in your life? Probably thousands of USD?

kees

Re: To your Wallet !

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Why can't you imagine that someone would have an old tool avocation and a cabinetmaking profession? Some of us who build reproductions feel the need to improve our understanding of the tools that were available, and more important, that were not available, when the pieces were built. To accurately reproduce these old pieces, we also need to understand how these old tools were used. Sometimes we need to go to flea markets to study the old pieces themselves, and to find authentic hardware, etc., etc., and so forth. If we find a tool we recognize, at a very reasonable price, that may help with the next project on the list, or the one after that, why shouldn't we pick it up? Why shouldn't we look for it? It's not like everything we build is just the same as the last, or the schedule is so tight that we have no time for making anything but sawdust, or that everything we know how to do we learned from our cat when we were in kindergarten.

Do you think that the modern tools are always the best, or even sufficient for all purposes? Do you think that new tools, often at significantly higher prices, save you any time over the old ones in tuning them so that they work properly? There are many untruths and half truths that all the power tool manufacturers, and even some of the modern handtoolmongers, would have you believe.

Re: To your Wallet !

Todd Hughes

>Unless you live over the Barr workshop I imagine a person that buys one of thier draw knives has to order one and have it sent to them. Today with Ebay I Don't know how that is easier...or quicker... then buying an old one off ebay that is ready to go to work when you get it.When I used to make axes ,professionaly, I used a small Swann Draw knife that I bought while at a flea market. Cost me $5 but did take me about 10 min. to sharpen and clean it.Is a beautiful tool that never let me wanting.I realise I could probably buy a Barr one that while not as attractive would probably work as well for about 20 times as much, wait a couple weeks while it was sent to me but true it would be sharp when I got it.Still though when it got dull you would have to sharpen it. Thinking back probably only took me 5 min. to get that old Swann sharp the first time. If you think about it the small amount of time it takes to get a good old tool up and running I think is pretty small when you figure it will probably last you your entire life.

Lots of professional wood workers use original vintage tools...I know because I sold many to them! Actually I think more use the older tools then they do the new made copies esp. it seems if they are more "into" hand tools then power tools.As a professional Blacksmith I used absolutly no modern made tools. I equiped my shop with all the tools I needed to make a good living for probably under $700 buying them as I needed on the weekends.

Nothing wrong with buying modern new made tools if that is what you like.I guess it is sort of like some people like to go into a furniture show room and buy some new made furniture instead of taking the time to make it thier self or taking the trouble to buy antiques, ...eh? .......Todd

Re: To your Wallet !

Todd Hughes

>Sounds to much like that 4 letter word...Work!

I was always a traditionalist and could never use trip hammers and modern methods like I imagine the Barr workshop does to make thier stuff on such a big scale.With interest in new made tools so high I figure it is a wide open market. I have been having a hankering lately to get back making some stuff,Who knows maybe I will?.....Todd

Re: To your Wallet !

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Absolutely no guarantees that a new tool is going to be sharp enough out of the box.

I bought a Swan draw knife on ebay, lovely tool, great steel. I also bought a couple of much smaller draw knives from Japan Woodworker for smaller work, they were definitely not sharp, not even approaching sharp, although they've proven to be good tools after sharpening.

BTW, ever come across a sen or scraper with handles for drawing saw steel?

Pam

Re: Power tool inefficiencies

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I'lll say, take the router,, for example. Cut mortises with it? Sure, but don't forget it takes 3 or 4 passes. Boring. Same with panel raising bits. They're huge, you need a more powerful router, it takes at least 4 passes around the panel, and if you're very lucky you won't burn the wood. I could go on.

Pam

Sen ?

Todd Hughes

>Is this the tool that the Japanese use to finish thier saws down as to thickness? I have seen picture of a simular [I guess] tool used by swordsmiths and it sort of looks like a drawknife but is probably closer to a metal scraper like machinists use but with another handle.Wouldn't think it would be to hard to make one out of a file....Don't think I will live long enough to ever see one in the wild!...Todd

Try buying a new anvil

Bob Hackett

>Talk about sticker shock!Suddenly the price of the old tools seems down right reasonable.Course you could do with a Horrible Freight cast iron anvil that would always be a disappointment to you right up till you broke the corners off it and it became totally unuseable.That is if you didn`t just break the entire horn off and it landed on your foot causing you to swear off metalworking forever and just buying all your machines ready made from Grizzly(ready made but NOT ready to go).I trust you see where this rant is leading.

Mainely,Bob-Money comes and goes.Skills,once mastered,last a lifetime and beyond.

You also need quality tools to do quality work.Old tools have already proved thier worth.

Re: Sen ? *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Yes, that's the tool, looks like a draw knife, actually looks like what I've seen described as a cooper's draw knife but with two handles. You can barely see one at the link below, top right photo.

Thanks,

Pam


Yataiki using a sen

Not all old tools

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Of course, some old tools have proven themselves unworthy. In my book, Stanley planes just s__k, especially for new woodworkers who don't know how to tune, much better to buy a LN or Veritas and get on with your work. For all you guys who have had success with old Stanley's, my hat's off to you.

And some old tools are just worn out. I've been looking for a hewing axe on ebay lately, and most of the antique ones I've seen look suspiciously short and recently unused, makes me wonder why. My assumption has to be that the blades are no longer any good, which is the position I have to take when I can't try it out before buying.

Pam

Re: Not all old tools

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>But if you get lucky, someone has already done the tuning for you. Maybe that's why hang holes are universally disparaged. Anyone who knew how to make a plane work and keep it working should have taken the time to build a toolbox to keep it in, instead of nailing it to a wall in the barn. At least, with a plane, if it is just the blade you find worn out, that can be a good sign: maybe it was used a lot because it worked well.

Draft Ad Copy (a little long)

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

>This needs some work to come up to the standards set by a certain West Coast toolmaker. Contributions welcomed.

For 2004, Dead Horse Tool Works is introducing the definitive drawknife. Tool collectors and green woodworkers (especially those with lots of green) will be lining up to buy these drawknives, which continue in the long line of the toolmakers of the East Coast, while adding modern (well, kinda) touches that make them unmisteakably the best you'll ever find.

THE STEEL - Like the makers of the finest Japanese chisels, who use anchor chains that have been aging in Tokyo harbors for up to a century, the toolmakers at Dead Horse Tool Works are not content to use the steel commonly available from the garden-variety industrial supplier. Instead, they seek out the finest truck leaf springs, which have been toughened by countless hours of carrying loads over Maryland roads.

THE FERRULES - Any fool can use specially designed ferrule stock. These drawknives, in a nod to American ingenuity and the four freedoms, use the base from 12-gauge shotgun shells, carefully collected from the grounds of the Dead Horse orchards, where they have been used to maintain the Dead Horse trees in their best condition.

THE HANDLES - Only the finest American hardwoods are used, unless they're out of stock, in which case the toolmakers will cleverly use whatever's on hand.

You forgot the part

Bob Hackett

>where Todd stand up to his chest in a pit while wearing his samurai regalia and then tests them on bamboo wrapped in wet newspaper before shipping.Truely a monumental task for a guy with no fingernails and at least two man eating dogs just inches away at all times.Not to mention the fact that he forges these blades using a dynamite hammer while wearing gasoline shorts.

Let`s not forget a shot of Todd`s latest girlfriend holding the miraculous blade.Well,maybe we`ll need more than afew shots to get them all in,or just a group shot(talk about dangerous!)

I trust this almost brings the add copy up to west coast standards.;^)

Mainely,Bob-Who is truely in awe of the fact that very little of this is actually fiction!

Pretty Funny !

Todd Hughes

>Pretty Good , I enjoyed it !....Got me curious and dug out my old catalog i used to send out here is a part out of the "Original"...

"All my axes are forge welded....I don't own an arc welder.With my knives I never use any glues, epoxys, solders etc. even where you can't see it.You might not be able to see it but after all I would know it is there. If you wish me to make somthing for you write and tell me what you need but send no money.Please do not ask for a design that is not "Right" as I will not make it. If I decide I want to make it I will tell you and then make it and send it to you.When you get it if you are happy you send me the money.If not happy I want you to send it back.I trust you to pay and I trust in my work that you will be satisfied....."

Kind of amazing when I think of all the work I had......Todd

Re: Draft Ad Copy (a little long)

Dennis

>Good, but what about the Deadhorse Funders Oval Club, that's open to the first 100,000,000 for 29.95$ and you will be first in line for your personal drawknife, with no benefits......roflmao

Dennis

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Re: To your Wallet !

Russell Seaton

>It appears kees needs someone to stand up for his point of view and not get buried from everyone piling on. I think buying brand new, more or less guaranteed to work right out of the box with minimal tuning is very good for the beginning woodworker and for the professional woodworker.

With the beginner they have a tool that will cut wood immediately and they can get some good results and satisfaction from woodworking. I have never bought that argument of knowing how to rebuild and modify a tool makes you better at using the tool. Getting better at using the tool requires you to use the tool. The factory workers at Stanley would have been the greatest woodworkers in history if this erroneous argument were true.

For professional woodworkers buying a good new tool can save lots of time and time is usually money. Finding old tools takes time. Going to yard sales and flea markets takes time. And if you need a tool now to use on a project to produce revenue, you don't have time to run down to the flea market or look through ebay and wait 1 or 2 weeks to have it shipped and maybe it will be right or maybe not. Yes a professional can buy lots of unneeded tools upfront and use them eventually, maybe. Not sure I would advise that as a good business decision. In many of the pictures shown in Fine Woodworking and Woodwork I see a lot of professional woodworkers using Lie-Nielsen bench planes. I would guess these woodworkers had many Stanley planes long before Lie-Nielsen produced its first bench planes. Yet they saw some benefit in buying and using an expensive new Lie-Nielsen plane instead of their old Stanley planes. Maybe being able to super tune metal planes to produce the best performance is not a skill all professional woodworkers possess or want to spend precious revenue producing time acquiring.

For the drawknives being duscussed here, buying a used one ahead of time for $5-$10 probably makes sense. Its an immaterial item and there really isn't much you have to do to get it working. And you would have to do the same whether its brand new or used. Polish the back and use a file and stones to create a smooth, sharp shallow bevel.