Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Tool Drool

Steve Kubien

>Hi John,

I've got a pretty good case of tool-drool goin' on over here! I have the same smoother (except 45 degrees) but I REALLY want the jack as well. Nice pictures too.

Looks like another fine job by Knight Toolworks. Enjoy them John.

Steve Kubien

Re: Tool Drool

Jim in Burlington

>John I see luck has shined upon you. I have never seen one in person how thick and wide is the blade? Dreaming in -20 temps here.

Re: Tool Drool

John K

>If I recall correctly, the blade is 2.5" wide and 1/8" thick. Nice and heavy.

John

Re: Tool Drool

Steve Knight

>oops better get this corrected. the irons are 2" wide and 1/4" thick O-1 steel. the wood is padouk.

Hey Jim

Steve Kubien

>Hey Jim (or anyone in the GTA),

If you are going to be out in my neck o' the woods, come on over and take my smoother for a test drive. Let me know.

Steve Kubien

Ajax, Ontario

Re: Hey Jim

Jim in Burlington

>Thanks for the offer.

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Mike Schwing from Md.

>Those planes of Steve's are works of art. I have a purpleheart jointer that is smooth and sultry looking, and it performs just as great as it looks. I almost feel guilty making a comment about it, but here it goes; I see it on yours as well - the area of the handle joinery just isn't up to par on a visual scale with the rest of the plane. It almost looks like it was built by a different person and added on as an afterthought. The screw popping up out of the top, it just doesn't do the rest of the plane justice. Every time I hold mine up to a workpiece, or just to admire it, my eyes run from the smooth lines at the toe all the way back to where they are interrupted by that "butt joint" handle with the screw sticking out.

Am I picky? Yes. Could I do better? Heavens no.

I really love that plane I have, and yours, too. Handle joinery just doesn't fit with the rest of it.

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>I dunno John, loks kinda' clunky and appears that it would be uncomfortable to hold. Best send it to Florida where it is much warmer fir analasis. ;~)

sorry Steve, but I do have to agree with Mike on the issue of the handle joinery, otherwise your planes are absolutly gorgess, and I am very envious of your abilitiy to make them.

Todd O.

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Steve Kubien

>I think offers both the jack and jointer without the handle (basically shaped like the coffin smoother but longer). Does anybody have one of these and if so, how is it to push that much plane, taking heavier cuts without a tote? Feel free to ping me off-line if you see fit.

Thanks,

Steve K

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>If I remember correctly, those handles don't come from Steve or at least they didn't used to, but are/were made by someone else who offers exotic wood handles. So your observations may actually reflect reality

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Steve Knight

>work of art? well I doubt it (G) at the time I did not have the tools to chop a mortise into a plane (sure can't do it by hand tools) and a stanley tote was affordable and replaceable.

but if they were morised in there what would be a good way to do it so they could be removed?

wht about the tote it's self does it look alright?

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Steve Knight

>Almost forgot. I debate on if a mortise machine can hold up to chopping mortises in purpleheart and ipe cocobolo ebony and such.

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Mike Schwing from Md.

>Steve, I sure don't want to add to the manufacturing cost of your lovely planes, but I'll see if I can elaborate a bit, since I brought it up.

PLEASE don't this personally, I've tried to take care to make sure you know I LOVE your planes.

Some of my comments will be simply personal preference, others might be considered objective critique. Which are which? Heck if I know.

The tote's overall proportions are fine, The front area of the foot of the tote, on mine and on the one in the picture, has a vertical surface of about 1/4" that joins a beveled horizontal surface. If that area were smoothed to match with some of the other curved surfaces on the body of the plane it would help make a clean transition from body to tote. Personal pref - I don't like the appearance of the front tote screw sticking up out of the tote, it should be recessed into the tote, as is the top screw, IMO. Messes with the lines. Yes we (you) are making planes here, but yours is so close to a work of art I'd love to see it taken the next step.

As others indicated, and you did, too, a slight recess/bed for the tote would be mostly all that is needed to complete the picture. I can envision a dedicated router jig that would hold the plane upside down over the top of a 1/2" straight bit to make the recess. I'm unaware of your volume but can't imagine a few quick swipes to make an 1/8" recess would eat too many bits.

I'm sure this last one is purely personal preference, but since there are no hard lines on the rest of the body, I'd also like to see none on the tote - the top edge could be rounded.

I feel so guilty even discussing this. I'm glad you're open to it.

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I have never used a mortise machine on anything harder than oak, but maybe you could help it out by drilling out most of the waste on the drill press, and then cleaning it up on the mortiser.

Electron Police: We are doing this to a hand tool!

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Frank Mutchler

>Steve, how about joining the tote to the plane body with a sliding dovetail? That would allow the line of the tote to meld seemlessly with the body??

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Robert Weber

>I was going to recommend the sliding dovetail as well. It would not need to be glued as the pushing on the plane would keep it in place, which would also make it removable. The screws definitely look out of place on the rest of that gorgeous plane.

Rob in Peoria

www.geocities.com/robntweber

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Todd O. Cronkhite Native of Maine

>Other than they looking like a bit of an after tought the totes themselfs looks fine to me Steve. I hope you do understand that I said that in the Spirit of constructive critisism only. I like other have already said think that your planes are works of Art, and a small improvement in how the tote/plane meet would really push them over the top.

Now, we know that this may involve extra time and tooling, which both cost money in the end, and that you are cutting it close now. We appreciate those facts, and the facts that you've got bills to pay, so if it is un-economical for you do make some changes in this area we certainly understand. Just food for thought is all.

Still Friends?

Todd O.

Re: Review of Knight jack and smoother w/pics

Steve Knight

>Don�t worry all I feel no attacks and love to get this kind of feedback so I can make better tools. It�s what helped me all along.

First the problems with sliding dovetails are the dovetail would have to be the full length of the back. As the razee style eliminates rung the slot through the higher part of the plane. A mortise is the best choice though will a mortiser work in such woods? It is flexible enough to get around the different high�s and widths of the planes.

But getting the totes modified to fit is iffy. Hard to get these tote makers to change (G) Plus how to mount a tote so it is removable?

Countersinking the screw is a good idea but it would be hard to do as the tote covers the hole so you can�t use a drill.

Getting these totes on accurately is fun anyway. Getting two threaded inserts to match up with one at such a angle is pretty tricky. So using a dowel to locate the toe instead of the that screw is iffy to get it to match a hole. I would have to mount the tote then locate the hole for the dowel and drill it. Then glue a dowel into the tote.

I could put threads in the tote hole and use some threaded rod to hold it in place.

Part of it is the cost of getting another machine. I make anywhere from one to 7 razee style planes a week. But I usually eyeball the cutouts.

Getting the tote made differently is tricky too.

Steve, thank for allowing us...

Mike Schwing from Maryland

>...for helping you in the design process!

I really think, and yes this involves electricity, that the easiest, most reliable and accurate set up would be a jig to hold the plane body upside down and a template built that allows a router with a bearing to cut the exact profile of the tote, recessed/mortised 1/8-1/4" The template would restrain the movement, and depth control is easy as setting up a repeatable depth indicator/stop block.

Of course, conversely this could be done with the router in a fixed position and the jig/template above, using a handheld router. I'm thinking about production cost/time here, so I'm keeping hand chopping of a morstise out of my solution.

Thanks again.

Re: Steve, thank for allowing us...

Steve Knight

>I think the mortise could be cut with a handheld plunge router a self centering base and some way to make the router level with the highest part of the plane so the curve of the razee back does not get in the way.

That part would be the easy part getting someone to make the totes the way I need them is harder. Though the totes without the holes drilled would be easier to make.

Maybe go to a D handle shape.

Getting the totes made is one part then cutting the mortises is the other. I don�t think it would cost too much more really.

When I first started all of the feedback I got and all the comments when into my tools. I don�t change them as much now and I don�t get those comments. I think people think they don�t feel they have the right to comment. But hell I want that feedback so I can improve things. I am lost on the looks department so feedback is critical there.

I have thought about how to make my planes out of only two pieces of wood a sole and the body and mill out the interior. I think it may make a overall better plane for real long term stability. But the cost of the tooling to do it will be way over 3000.00 so it won�t happen soon.

Re: Steve, thank for allowing us...

Steve Knight

>I forgot I had thought about doing it by hand. But the mortises would have to be pretty good or the whole thing would look bad. Plus the wear and tear and time to keep a chisel sharp cutting the tropicals would be a real pain. Chopping a mortise in ipe or purpleheart or cocobolo or ebony would not be a easy thing to do.

What about a closed tote?

John K in Hastings, MN

>For the razee style, a closed tote would give more strength and the front screw could be recessed in a hole and plugged or set just below flush. I'm thinking more of an infill style rear tote.

John

Re: What about a closed tote?

Steve Knight

>the D handle is an idea I have thought if. I just have to find someone to make them.

Re: What about a closed tote?

paul womack

>They are complex (i.e. slow i.e. expensive) to make.

If ya' wann'a make your own, here's all the information you need.

I suspect a "sanding bow" like the decoy carvers use might be useful when making such a handle - can any of the saw and/or infill makers comment?

BugBear