Veritas Micro Adjust wheel gauge question *LINK*

Re: When was this announced?!?!?!

paul womack

>

Re: This Afternoon *internal link*

William R. Duffield, on the Cohansey

>Where have you been, BugBear, asleep at the keyboard?

Nah...

Re: oh.

paul womack

>You've done it this time, Mr Lee.

I normally view Veritas tools as modern, innovative designs, and Lie Nielsen tools as old designs ultra-refined using modern processes.

The Lie-Nielsens are normally a shade "prettier" in fit and finish.

The Lee Valley are normally a good deal less money.

The level of functionality is usually similar; the LN's achieve this through sheer build quality, the LV through design innovation.

But this time...

The LV tool is (to my eye) a little more refined, and the cost comparison is ... ludicrous.

If anyone else wants to play "take your pick"

• Lie Nielsen/Glen-Drake
  
  
• Lee Valley
  
  

BugBear (who will get one of these somehow)

Re: oh.

Clay Craig in Miami

>Do keep in mind that the Tite-Marks are not made by Lie-Nielsen (indeed, IIRC it's the only non-LN-made item that LN sells). The Tite-Marks are made by Kevin Drake himself, a one-man shop.

I guess my personal hope would be that Rob gloriously thrive and prosper on the rest of the LV catalog, but this particular item would fall just 'short of the mark' somehow - I'd hate to see any creative one-man shop driven from the market by a less-costly version of his idea. For this one purpose, is LV playing the role of Wal-Mart to Glen-Drake's local hardware emporium?

I freely admit complete bias on this one - I know and like Kevin personally, and I imagine his business relies on this one product to an extent that LV does not. But, I do fully expect that, even if the LV version lives up to the Tite-Mark in every way, Kevin will scrape the barnacles off his imagination and come up with something else worthwhile.

Re: oh.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Well, the LN does have the mortise blade option. Is that worth $70?

Pam

Glen-Drake Toolworks

Don Thompson, Cutler Ridge, South of Miami FL

>I don't think that Glen-Drake, in Ft. Bragg California, is a unit of Lie-Nielsen. Lie-Nielsen is just one of several sources for the Tite-Mark gauges.

I wonder whether Veritas will be offering a scoring cutter, or a set of mortise blade.

Don (a Glen-Drake homey since I got a set for Xmas) ;-)

Clay...

Rob Lee

>We're certainly mindful of our market position, particularly when it comes to smaller domestic (North American) manufacturers.

I would respectfully point out, though, that this is not a "less costly version of his idea". We were, after all, the first on the market to re-introduce this style of gauge (based on a Stanley product) - with some modifications/enhancements. The concept of a micro-adjust on a marking gauge is an old one, and Glen-Drake has done it in a "standard" way. Our particular solution uses nothing from any other marking gauge on the market.

Personally - I find it far more "offensive" that our original gauge (among other tools) has been shipped to China (by another catalog operation (not Woodcraft or Rockler)) and directly copied (poorly) ...

There's is a difference between operating in the same industry, and competing directly with another company. We're not about to cease development within a tool category, just because there's a smaller entity in play...though we will do our best not to overlap...

Cheers -

Rob

Don -

Rob Lee

>No plans to make a set of mortise blades similar to Glen-Drake (see post above).

We do have one more marking gauge in development though....not quite ready for prime time.

Rob

Re: Glen-Drake *LINK*

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Kevin's gauges are beautiful, and I really like the new-to-me (this might have been shipping forever and I just didn't notice) mortising and scoring blade options. If I didn't already have too many gauges that all work wonderfully and come ready for a specific marking/mortising task (each is less flexible, but I really can't imagine myself changing out blades in the midst of an engagement), it would be a top contender. However, I'd purchase it from Joel, what great descriptions he provides. And while there, check out the Starrett scratch gauge.

My favorite marking gauge so far is the simple, very compact Stanley single beam pin metal gauge, it's just there, my go to marking gauge.

However, all this said, I may give the adjustable graduated Veritas gauge a chance when I place my next order at LV. It's not a major commitment if I end up not liking it; whereas I'd have to try a gauge that cost 3 or 4 times as much before buying. Similarly, when I place my next order with Joel, I'll likely throw in the Starret. Both LV and Joel have very generous return policies; but I'm not comfortable returning an item that I've used for a while if it's not broken, reeks of unfair to me, I'd like to see these guys stay in business.

Pam


Tite-Mark at Joel's

Re: Clay...

Clay Craig in Miami

>Rob,

Certainly I have no idea whether the idea of adding a secondary micro-adjusting collet to the original Stanley design was original to Kevin - and I see that my original post did make that assumption. Your version adopts that, as well as the countersink for the cutting wheel, and the Tite-Mark was just the first place I saw either feature.

I am in no way 'offended' by you competing anywhere, with anyone. Nor do I want Veritas to back off any area. Competition is good for everyone, not least for the consumers ... us! As to 'we do our best not to overlap,' I admit (happy) surprise that it is of concern at all.

I made my personal bias (and its cause) clear in the first post - so, no offense was intended, I hope none was taken.

Clay

Re: Clay...

Rob Lee

>Clay -

No worries!

You voiced a valid concern - I just wanted to ensure that you (and others reading) understood where we stand.

One of the things I didn't say was that the main reason we didn't have a micro-adjust version for so long was that we didn't (and I still don't!) think that it was necessary. However - we've caved to demand on this one...

Personally - my preference is still for the original, ungraduated (and least expensive) version. There's a lot of "false" (or at least unnecessary) precision creeping into woodworking, and woodworking tools - and we're as guilty as anyone else...but that's another rant, for another day....

Cheers -

Rob

Starrett Scratch Gauge

Rossmoor Galoot

>Pam,

Thanks for the heads up on the gauge. I had never noticed it before. I had some Christmas gift money burning a hole in my pocket so I purchased it on the strength of your recommendation. I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

Re: Don -

Don Thompson - South of Miami

>We do have one more marking gauge in development though....not quite ready for prime time.

Can you say anything more about it?

Inquiring Woodworkers Want To Know!

Re: Starrett Scratch Gauge

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Oops, sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't recommend it, I've never used it; but it looks great and Joel recommends it. Sure hope you like it.

Pam

Re: Don -

Rob Lee

>...well, I don't want to be two specific..:)

Cryptically yours...

Rob

Re: Don -

Rob Lee

>Hope that wasn't TWO subtle....;)

Rob

T'wasn't

Don Thompson - South of Miami

>

Was two.

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>

Re: Starrett Scratch Gauge

joel

>THe starrett guage is an interesting gauge - not as suited out of the box for WW as the titemark (the cutter is wrong) but I like the feel of it. I think the Titemark is praobly the way to go for wheel guages - super smooth and very well thgout out. - but the design of the Starrett is just elegant and subtle.

Re: On microadjustment

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>FWIW, Rob's comments on this were not manufactured for this discussion. We had much the same conversation over a month ago, when I had commented I didn't see the need for such "microadjustment/micro-precision" in a marking guage.

To my way of thinking, though I know it is not shared by many, much of the advantage to a marking guage is that it serves as another component of a story board system, with all the error free repeatability inherent in such a system.

I have a half dozen marking guages (one of which cost ten times the Lee Valley), and the inexpensive original Lee Valley guage is the one I consistently reach for.

Somehow, I can just imagine that someone somewhere is really right now working on a microprecision dovetail marking guage that will allow seperately laying out both pins and tails to .0001 to allow perfect mating. Of course one could just recognize there will be more slop in sawing and chopping than this, and mark one from the other, accordingly.

:)

Rob Lee

>

Re: Starrett Scratch Gauge

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>Joel, are there replacement cutters for the Starrett? Or would one from another gauge fit OK?

Thanks,

Pam

Re: Clay...

Pam Niedermayer - Austin, TX

>I certainly agree with both of you, have gotten along fine without an adjustable fence; but if you find center a la Kingshott, being able to adjust without unscrewing the stop screw, thus moving the fence, could come in very handy indeed. Now, this doesn't have to be all that micro, just adjustable.

Pam

Re: Starrett Scratch Gauge

joel

>Not from STarrett. I think the glen drake cutters fit but I am not positive at the moment (and can't check right this second)