Why I'm not all that sorry the Pond is dead

My experience (long)

Begin Ramble mode: ;-)

I have been here about 2 1/2 years now, and I also lurked at BP, but seldom posted. Based on what I have seen at both sites, I do not think there will be any big problems. Almost everyone I know that posted regularly on either site was civil (not that everyone did not want to vent once in awhile) and actually were self policing. Those that posted "bad" things either got hammered by the group or ignored. In my time here at Woodcentral, I can only think of a couple of times that a thread was smitten (other than outright spam) and that was for VERY good reasons such as language that would make a sailor blush or something like that. We are all grownups (or at least you are ;-)) [I am going to have my second childhood as soon as I finish my first one] and I believe that we all know what is inappropriate. Sometimes people need to vent and Ellis is normally tolerant as long as it does not get out of hand or turn into personal attacks.

I think you will find the atmosphere here to be a bit freer (sp?) perhaps, but it then behooves all of us to think about what we are saying.

One of the things that are different is the ability to link to your own website for picture posting and such, with the understanding that if it is a strictly commercial post, you should be talking to Ellis and take out an add. Only fair.

Commercial here:

I do the links page and there is a place there for personal and craftsman webpages. Send me the URL and I will get them up as quickly as I can. Please send to the "submit a link" as opposed to the address I put in my posts so I don't drown my personal e-mail. There are some neat sites there already check them out.

Commercial over:;-)

To make a short story long, I think this is a great site with great people(both old timers and new people) and I, for one, look forward to learning a lot and making a lot of new friends. We just have to keep from killing Ellis off.

Ramble mode off:

Dan D.

Ha, ha.

You've gone a long way toward earning my respect

Dan, you said that beautifully.

Pretty much my sentiments expressed much better than I could.

One thing that both this and the other forum are noted for is the absence of flames. I've seen both come close but I believe the group attains civility by concensus.

For the Ponders, I'll relate a personal anecdote. When V. Putin was visiting our President at the Crawford ranch about a year and a half ago, I witnessed a TV open forum at the high school and in my exuberance at the novelty of that event, I posted a totally inappropriate observation. A coupla my friends here pointed that out and I apologized and asked Ellis to remove it. Nothing noble on my part; just an example of how being civil makes a better community for everybody.

Hope this helps someone.

BobH

Up from the mire

I knew when the pond was drained we would have to deal with some mud.Let`s try not to get mired down and flounder.I feel what we have here is an opportunity to bring what we like about BP over and leave the rest behind.If we fail to make this a better and further evolved place then it will be no-ones fault but our own.I feel we should ALL be part time moderators and police ourselves to a great extent.As long as we show respect for each other there should not be a problem(there will also be fewer headaches for Ellis and Ted).The topic is WOODWORKING folks,let`s try to leave ego and agenda at the door.I learned quickly that peer pressure is a powerful tool and if you want to REALLY know a person,just contact them offline.That`s where I think we should TACTFULLY be pointed when things drift from light to heat,I also feel we should all shoulder some of the responsibility.I also feel that we all agree at least in part by coming here,posting our names and e-mail adresses and making ourselves so accessable.We want to be up front or we wouldn`t take that risk.Thanks for letting me ramble yet again.

Mainely,Bob

the truth can't hurt too much

I don't know if your post suggests that mine dipped into the mire, but I don't think I did. I just felt that a cathartic review of the last year or so of the Pond's existence in light of Pam's post and experience was important enough to eat a few bytes.

I appreciate all the good will that BP represented and how it got that way, so I will be the last one to start flaming anyone or anything. This forum will certainly get back to woodworking subjects, but it is a _community_ of woodworkers and most of us share a common recent past. No harm in clarifying what that past was or meant IMO.

Respectfully, Tom

Late breaking news

Gentlepeople. Wayne has attended to the matter of the archives. He didn't specify where they will exist yet but said they have been spoken for. I hope they end up together with the articles and book reviews.

As a matter of fact Wayne asked several people he trusted for assistance to monitor the forums as assistant webmasters. My guess is that the responses were lacking. With no help to run the site I presume he "hit the wall". The matter of disposing of a 6 year labor is something I have no experince with. I don't know how I would have reacted to that prospect myself. Perhaps someone can add some personal viewpoint of a relevant nature.

I enjoyed the pond for 5 of the 6 years and would miss the opportunity to search that accumulation of data. It is a moot point now. JR

Re: Meet the local crank.

Hi Sgian

We 'speak' often at another forum, me using my other name and you using your other name.

Good to see you here - I spent a lot more time on the Pond than the 'other forum'

Folks, getting serious for a sec, what Sgian doesn't know isn't worth knowing. Time will prove this right - - - he's trained in one of the most rigorous systems in the world and passed with flying colours.

Enough of the dribble and falling at your feet - I'm going for a beer.

Cheers, Andrew

Pam.... (LONG)

Hi Pam,

I can tell that's obvious how much you're hurt by the whole thing, including the end of the NH, therefore The Pond.

Although I somewhat agree with what you're saying, I disagree with "free speech" forum stuff.

I don't want to go over the whole thing again, but one aspect of the whole issue has not been brought up.

Simply courtesy and respect can cover the whole issue. What I mean by that is: Suppose you have to live in your Dad's home for awhile. You guys get along although time to time he gets in your nerves and even deeper than that, but you keep silence due to your respect of him as well as the fact that you live in his house. This may not be a very best analogy, but I think it's close enough.

Anyway, my point is, in the power tool section, as well as the main board of this forum, there were indications that "contents of the Pond" will be available here, in WC. I think you did not see those messages before you posted yours.

Think about the other way... You have something in your possession that you've created (or not), but you care about it dearly. Wouldn't you be upset if you have to give it up? That's what Wayne is going through. Yes he could have done other things, like sell it, transfer it, whatever so the PB can go on. He didn't want to see it going down, he just didn't want to take that chance.I think it's noble thing to do. This is not "taking the ball home". I hardly think so....

You are a little too harsh and too open about it, but as I said, it must be because of you were hurt badly. Weren't you Pam?

Lastly,

Nevertheless, I share your view, but not to the point that I strive for "free expressional forum", because we all know what that turns into. We're all savages, as human beings...especially when we have the power of vast amounts of freedom.(meaning the freedom to overpower others)

As I said in another post, one's freedom is over when it overlaps on another's freedom. Courtesy, respect and thoughtfulness should -optimally- create those borders of freedom, but as I mentioned before, we are savage creatures and we need some degree of control. Please don't take this personally, I don't mean YOU can't control yourself, I mean anybody. Anyway, long story short, I favor some degree of control, maybe not as much as Wayne's rules, which I think were little excessive, especially for this environment. This is internet, not a radio talk show that you can immeddiatly cut the line of a caller, if you know what I mean.

We have to accept the fact that certain people are in a certain way and we either learn to live with them or not.Maybe Wayne's rules were religious or whatever based, I have no idea. He just tried to keep the place as civil and friendly as possible to the best of his ability and beliefs. I respected and understood that and I accepted to play the game with his rules. I have no regrets. I thank him for being the cause of many new friendships that I/we've created and wish him all the best.

One of my favorite sayings:

"It's easy to break hearts, skill is to win them."

Chico....

Hi Ted,

I didn't read your post before I posted mine (in this thread). Sounds like you're the man for the job! Thanks.

Chico...

Re: Why I'm not all that sorry the Pond is dead

It's not that I don't know where you are coming from.

I've known Wayne since the mid 90's, back when there where maybe 15 of us on a forum for years and years. Got to know him very well.

But guess what? I've also made his "list" in terms of being "censured" on the Pond. I'm still on the list WRT to the Power Tool area in fact, I'm not allowed to post in real time.

And you know what? Didn't bother me at all.

Wayne is not for everyone, lord knows certainly neither am I, but for a fair amount of folks who don't know him to take potshots at the guy without knowing his full plans gets to me.

That's all.

P.

Very GOOD

Good message Ted, I think any pond bashing messages are useless here..The site will be missed but we all must MOVE ON!

So far I like what i see at woodcentral and think it will work just fine. If YA'll can but up with me...