hide glue

Re: hide glue

Only what I've read:

Rub joints. Less concern with clamping need.

Easy cleanup. A wet cloth and less worry about blocking finish. 

The finished joint is just as good as any modern glue joint.

You can go out, shoot a wild critter and boil your  own glue. Any horse or cow can substitute.

Disadvantages:

Price. Smell. Fussy to use the heat versions.

Re: hide glue

Informative response. I have glue pot and have use the stuff-- probably about five times total. I did it when I wanted to possibly take the joint apart afterwards.

I never shoot critters. But I suppose I'm being a hypocrite because someone else does it for me.I

Re: hide glue

Also, long assembly time, 10-15 minutes for the liquid hide glue types.  Liquid hide glue is absolutely superb for sliding dovetail joints.

Re: hide glue

I was asking about "real" hide glue-- the old fashioned kind made from animal hide. I believe the so-called liquid hide glue is a different animal (ha!). And, I'm not sure, but I believe the real stuff tacks up fast -- not good for sliding anything. I'm still trying to figure out (again, other than luthier stuff) where to use it.

Re: hide glue

Hot hide glue quickly gels when it cools, which may complicate sliding joints.  Liquid hide glue is simply hot hide glue with a small percentage of urea added I believe.

Re: hide glue

The working time for hide glues, liquid and otherwise, is very sensitive to the temperature of the shop.   The warmer it is the longer the working time.  Conversely, in a cooler shop the glue working time is significantly shortened.  In assembling the upper carriage (back spindles, arm spindles, arm and back bow) of Windsor chairs I keep the shop temperature above 75 degrees F to permit me the time needed to assemble a handful of M&T joints before the glue seizes the components in a partially assembled state.

Paul in Hunt Valley, MD

Re: hide glue

Make your own iron-on veneer tape.

Re: hide glue

I see what you're getting at, but you would have to be very careful with the hide glue -prepared tape to keep it flush with the edges of the board while ironing  I always glue the banding on first -- a bit proud of the edges -- and then plane it flush afterwards.

Re: hide glue

What does the urea do?

Re: hide glue

I like hide for inlay and stringing.  The fast tack is useful when you’re building up a pattern, because each new piece sets quickly and you can move along at a good clip.  Similarly the stringing goes in quick and stays put.  Equally important:  when you wipe the hide excess away, you will not see a trace or shadow in the final finish.  It’s like there is zero residual to bite you at the finishing stage.  

Wiley

Re: hide glue

Ah, ha! Nothing to worry about when adding finish.

Re: hide glue

It was used because that is the glue that was available, not because it was wanted to disassemble later.

Wanting to use it is as good a reason as choosing to use synthetic glues. There are procedures to use it, but once learned it's no more of a chore as anything else one needs to do.

For certain musical instruments, I'm not 100% certain, it's traditional, it's reversible, it's expected that the instrument will be refurbished in the future. Rabbit glue was and probably is still used in guilding.

My father used hot hide glue for veneering work. I have some of his work and after 20 years is as good as ever.

I remember the little fire where he warmed his double boiler, the stinky glue, his brass veneer hammer. Nowadays don't you need to buy vacuum systems and use special glues? He didn't use that. He used PVA for everything else.

Re: hide glue

It would appear that you have made  some of these chairs.  I would live to see one. any chance for a PIC?

Re: hide glue

I’ve made 15 of these chairs, including 3 rockers, for family members.   Here are two of them in my dining room.  They represent an early version on the right and a later version on the left because I have been tinkering with their proportions for comfort. 

Re: hide glue

I find these to be particularly fine looking. I once asked a wild turkey hunter how hard is it to shoot one, and if I had any chance the first time to get one. His answer was-- NO. No chance!

Is it the same story with these chairs? Do you think I could get close to what you have accomplished on my first try? I did make one chair, and a good one at that. But not this style.

Re: hide glue

For a first Windsor chair I suggest taking a course.  There are several courses offered in different parts of the country.  To get an idea of the variety of skills used in Windsor Chair construction I suggest you view some of Curtis Buchanan’s YouTube videos.  He is a master chair maker who is excellent at communicating the process.  Also very helpful is the Chairmaker’s Notebook by Peter Gilbert.  It’s an excellent guide to making Windsor chairs. 

If you chose to not take a class and wish to try anyway, I suggest you build your first chair from a kit that can be purchased from multiple suppliers on the internet.  This will permit you to focus on the assembly steps, which are not trivial, rather than having to start from zero and fabricate every component before assembling them.  I made my first couple chairs from kits while waiting for my maple and poplar boards to air dry. The original Windsor chairs in the 17th century were assembled by carpenters, coffin makers, and wheel rights in towns using components fabricated by bodgers  out in the woods with wagons, axes and pole lathes.

No one makes just one chair.  Once you have succeeded in making a useable chair there is an irresistible compulsion to make another one, but better, because of all you’ve learned in making the last one.

Give it a go!  It’s a rewarding endeavor.

paul In Hunt Valley, MD