Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

Apparently

Mark Hennebury

you have appointed yourself a safety nut.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

Barry Irby

My computer came to life in the middle of the night and Rob Cossman was talking. I stumbled in and turn it off but in the few second I watched I was amazed that his sled did not include a cover for the blade coming out of the rear. I may go back and watch again, but I would not have a sled without the protection. It would be almost inevitable I would hurt myself.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

David Weaver

Paint yours red where the blade comes through and don't touch the red part.

agree

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

On a table saw sled put some visual and tactile flag indicating that the hands should not be there. I added an aluminum strip. The blade makes angry noises when cutting aluminum but does not harm the blade.

And

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

You obviously have a problem with that, eh?

I no longer use a crosscut sled..

David Weaver

..I'm the crosscutter, but I was thinking about this after I mentioned the red as I generally paint things a given color.

I can be very absent minded, but understand the permanence of finger loss, so that hasn't been an issue. If I still used one, I might be inclined to put pins through the wood adjacent to where the blade comes through (not where the blade comes through) so that it would be physically impossible to push the sled very near the blade.

I worked in a cabinet factory 25 years ago and saw high safety standards in most places, but there was a chop saw and a large bandsaw that two workers used for various tasks. At a speed that terrified me. The fact that we had to wear steel toe boots and safety glasses to pick up cabinet doors and put them on a cart while someone a room over was a human high speed reciprocating tool cutting angle blocks out on a bandsaw always seemed interesting.

The steel toes did probably save me from breaking toes on a loading dock on an extremely low probability event, though, and I stopped complaining about how uncomfortable they were after that (they were - wearing athletic shoes with all of the walking on concrete was far more comfortable than boots).

I have many problems...

Mark Hennebury

If noticing the contradiction in Eliot's statement is considered a problem, then I guess you are correct.

Re: Apparently

eliot

Yes, there's a logical contradiction in how I phrased it. But I am honestly trying to prevent someone, perhaps a beginner, as we all were once, from getting hurt.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

Dave Bair

Buy a SawStop and finger-loss potential is zero.

Re: Apparently..!let's support Safety Nuts

Tom Dunlap

Why the snide put-down, Mark?

Maybe you've had a blessed life where you and everyone in yoiur life has dodged accidents. Most people are not that fortunate.

My life hasn't been so blessed.My first stitches were when I was five. I've had a couple of stooopid accidents that put me in the hospital for 2-3 days. I sure wish that someone like Eliot or another Self Appointed Safety Nut had been there to warn me before I did the stoopid thing. Even more, I wish that there would have beenSelf Appointed Safety Nuts on the job sites when my 5 arborist friends were killed on the job. All of the accidents could have been avoided if the Safety Nut was there.

back it up ....

Mark Hennebury

I made no comments on what Eliot did.

I, in no way expressed or implied anything for or against what Eliot did.

In no way did I ridicule, belittle or put-down what Eliot did.

Whatever you think that I said or implied is a creation of your own imagination.

I saw humor in the contradiction in his phrasing that was all.

How about you try re-reading Eliot's post and my reply to it. Let me know if you can see what was actually written.

Just for the record,

Wiley Horne

Mark has made important safety recommendations on this site, stemming from horrific injuries he has had.

Wiley….all in favor of Eliot’s point

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

TomD

Most sleds I have seen, and similar jigs, say the ones that make finger joints, all crosscut miter gauges, have the blade blowing through.

Also, I can't imagine having my hand at the back of the jig. I need a video of some guy with the board loose on the front side, pushing with his hands on the back side, like a bobsledder.

Don't know what the NB lawyers would say, but in some cases if you provide a safety device you are liable for it working.

Doesn't he use Saw Stop. Right at the moment that may be your best bet to avoid legal repercussions. Another win for Saw Stop - any other rational device is now a liability. If you put safety gear on an SS saw you are acknowledging it is not perfectly safe, and if someone does get hurt using it, you predicted the problem.

That said, putting something on your sled is easy enough. I had a dowel that I hooked my thumb around while my hand worked as a hold down. Though since I got a radial arm, I do most of my cross cutting on that. And since getting my Incas I use the miter exclusively, as there is no need to do square cuts on it.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

Garthfromsandiego

I attached a 5/4 thick block of wood on the back of the saw sled where the blade penetrates the fence. It provides a tactile warning as to where my fingers should be. So far so good.

Who else might use the tool?

Wiley Horne

One day when I was at work, and unbeknownst to me, my dear wife was doing some small craft project or other.

[Don’t worry, this story does not have an awful ending, but there is a point.]

She took it in her head to go saw some small squares I believe it was, on my radial arm saw. Which she had never used, and knew nothing about. But it’s not hard to figure out the working principle and push the red ON button.

In the midst of this sawing, somehow she got a ricochet of a flying square. Hit her in the forehead. Hurt, but no big skin break. Shut the machine down and left shaken badly (at what might have happened).

Told me about it 10 years later. Was embarrassed and didn’t want a lecture at the time.

MORAL: It’s not just your safety. I should have locked the ON switch of that saw. But didn’t because of lazy and because I was not alert to the possibilities. Table saws in some ways may be more dangerous than RAS’s to the novice family member because the spinning blade is not up in your face looking dangerous.

Wiley

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

William Duffield

Some observations, in no particular order:

The brake mechanism doesn't make the SawStop completely safe. It can still throw wooden projectiles at a high rate of speed due to kickback. While most kickbacks are projected parallel to the table top, where they will most likely be stopped by a wooden miter fence extension, or the front fence of the crosscut sled, some can still reach your body. If you don't have your riving knife installed, short cutoffs can easily be pushed into the blade where the teeth rise out of the table and lofted over the fence and into your face. Repetitive cutting of small offcuts increases the probability of this occurrence. Other saws have much more vibration than the SawStop, and these can more easily move offcuts towards the launch pad, if they are not removed immediately from the table. I noticed in Rob's video that the trapezoidal piece of baltic birch he screwed to the fence of his sled significantly diminishes the chance that he would put part of a hand in the path of a blade emerging from the back of the sled. This however is not justification for not heeding eliot's very good advise to build a box or block behind the fence that completely covers the blade when at maximum height and halfway through the front fence, and adding a positive stop to the underside of the sled to prevent it being pushed further than the half way through the fence. People are much too easily distracted, especially when doing repetitive, boring work or when there are other distractions in the shop, to rely on presence of mind to keep their flesh away from saw blades. This is even true for SawStops, because brake cartridges and Freud Fusion blades are expensive, as are emergency trips to your nearest Woodcraft store (DAMKIKT), even if you don't also need to deal with an amputation.

WE make a lot of subconscious assumptions..

David Weaver

...and some conscious, about what other people will do or not do in our shops. Your example is a good one that just because we know something is dangerous, and may even mention it repeatedly around others in the house, does not mean that they won't either forget or have a wild hair of "it won't hurt to try it once", and the consequences can be permanent to (rarely, fortunately) deadly.

Morbidity and mortality - two good things to avoid in life.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

TomD

Kickback from a sled, that takes a lot of imagination. Which is why it is great to have a lot of contributors to these kinds of thread. Reminds me of my dear old insurance broker, you could wind him up and let him rip after saying something innocent like "so what kinds things can happen when a bear gets tangled up in your laundry". And being in the line he was, it was probably all true.

But the kickback thing is a good reason to have an Airmate helmet. I got one a long time ago, but I could not get it comfortable, so rarely used it. I have a largish head. I had occasion to use it a year or so ago, when I was sawing some particularly awful plywood that was giving me the vapours. Wow, what a difference. And with Covid, I wear it to the supermarket. My little contribution to letting other people feel less foolish.

Now, because it was old already, it seems to be dying on me. I am definitely going to get some more of them. Maybe buy 10 from china, if I can get a reliable sample. Lexan, no fogging, a hard hat, and clean air, priceless. Certainly a lot more useful than sawstop, because it is so versatile. And you can own both.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

William Duffield

I never was one to argue against "belt and suspenders"

One of my kickbacks was on a full sled, where I was making a half lap joint. While cotting one half, i foolishly set the other piece of the joint on the sled. The sled was hanging up a little due to high humidity and the runner being a [expletive deleted] too wide, so I pushed it a little harder. The second piece of wood ( 2" x 6" teak) rotated into the back of the blade, and the saw threw it into the fence. Luckily, the hard maple fence stopped it, leaving a half inch deep dent, instead of throwing it at me.

The other kickback was on a miter half sled (with one runner, one miter fence, and the whole sled on one side of the blade. This was a dumb design, because the cutoff was not supported. I was making a picture frame from purpleheart, and as the first cut went through the saw and the offcut started to drop the 3/4" to the table, the next tooth slammed it straight down, where it made an awful sound, bounced, and immediately disappeared. Luckily, that one didn't hit me either.

Re: Rob Cosman's tablesaw sled

Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana

I am just an amateur woodworker with many years of butchering wood, made many project for friends and family.

Many years ago I purchased my first Microjig grr-ripper. I since purchased at least 2 more and various sundry replacement rails (due to my mistakes during quick setups). I am just an amateur woodworker with many years of butchering wood, made many project for friends and family.

These in my estimation have been the best / safest items I have ever purchased. I have kept from having kickback several times as I can hold the piece being cut - I have actually stalled my 3 hp Delta Unisaw doing so.

I have never had a board escape the saw!

I use the grr-ripper on my table saw, Joiner, and Router table without any issues (except damage to the item).

Note: I have no affiliation nor will receive any compensation for this message - just a real satisfied user!