Caution for All

Appreciate the cautionary note

Ellis Walentine

I read the article you linked, but I didn't see any reference to spalted wood as an example of the type of fungus that causes this mucormycosis. I'm wondering if exposure to any type of mold or fungus might precipitate the disease, or if there are any worries if you don't have a compromised immune system.

Mucormycosis aside, there may be other maladies connected with inhaling spalted wood dust. Years ago, when I was editing Sandor's revised dust collection book, I was dong some research and ran across a reference to some idiopathic lung disease, occasionally fatal, that seemed to be connected directly to the fungus in spalted wood. I don't know how well corroborated that particular connection was at the time, and I have not checked for subsequent developments, but an ounce of precaution is worth a pound of cure. I always use a filtered air-supply face shield when turning.

Ellis

Re: Caution for All

paul in AZ

The Mucor group of organisms is all around us. Specially so in hot, humid climates.

You pretty much have to be weakened or sick with some other condition to get infected.

Heat [autoclaving] kills it. I don't know exactly how much is needed.

For spalted lumber, does kiln drying give enough time/temperature to kill mucor?

Maybe someone knows these.

Re: Caution for All

Don Stephan

The CNN article is very confusing. One sentence several paragraphs in begins something like "Black fungus is caused by a mold . . ." but mold and fungus are two very different organisms.

If you accept Dr. Seri Robinson, aka Dr. Spalt, as an expert on spalted wood, in her book Spalting 101 on page110:

"Is spalting dangerous to people?"

Someone commented that mucor" is all around us. So it could be on damp spalted wood, on a wall or ceiling where there is a roof leak, . . .

The disease sound very real, and should not be taken lightly. But it is not clear if the causative agent (mold? fungus?) produces spalted wood.

AZ

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Coming from one who survived Valley Fever tramping through the desert between Mesa and Tuback and still has the marks it left behind, if my immune system were reduced after a fight with something like Covid I'd have an N-95 stuck to my puss 12 hours a day.

Re: AZ valley fever

paul in AZ

Valley fever [coccioidomycosis] is d/t a fungus very common in blowing dust in the southwest's deserts. Underdiagnosed even by local docs who should be alert to it. Tourists who take it home rarely get it properly diagnosed by docs who basically never see another case. No effective treatment. It can be fatal.

I've had it. Acted like a severe respiratory flu that lasted 4-6 weeks. It left a golf ball sized calcified scar in one lung.

There could well be an uptick in cases in the so-called long haul Covid survivers. Another reason to be grateful for anti-Covid vaccine.

Immune system

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

You immune system is not weakened by the Covid virus. It may be possible that a viral lung infection would leave one more vulnerable to more severe effects from a lung fungal infection; I don't know. But who would be working wood with infected lungs? Covid is a two part infection. It starts in the upper respiratory tract. Here is it most able to spread. It it stays there, no problem. It is when it moves to the lungs that risk from the infection worsens.

A lung fungal infection will be the result of inhaling mold spores. I don't know enough about spalting to know if the mold makes spores internal in the wood. Seems it would be a poor strategy to make spores internal where they could not be released to the air.

Re: Immune system

paul in AZ

"You immune system is not weakened by the Covid virus."

You have a reference for that?

It runs counter to the secondary infections seen with Covid.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01806-20

Studies to date are fragmentary and incomplete but do implicate IgM; T cells; platelets and impaired interferon in dysfunction of immune components leading to secondary infection.

Long term health woes more likely to hit COVID-19

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

The following is a short report in a medical journal I receive:

"One in seven (14%) adults with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) developed at least one new condition that required medical care during the post-acute phase of illness, which is 5% higher than adults with no COVID-19 in 2020, according to a US study published by The BMJ. The post-acute phase in this study started 21 days (or 3 weeks) after initial infection. US researchers set out to evaluate the excess risk of developing new clinical conditions after the acute phase of COVID-19. Using health insurance records, they identified 266 586 adults (aged 18–65 years) diagnosed with COVID-19 from 1 January to 31 October 2020 and examined whether these individuals were diagnosed with at least one of 50 conditions up to 6 months after initial infection. Individuals were matched to three comparison groups with no COVID-19 infection from 2020, 2019, and a group diagnosed with other viral lower respiratory infections. Differences between groups, such as age, sex, area of residence and medical history were taken into account. The results show that 14% of adults with COVID-19 had at least one new condition that required medical attention after the acute phase of illness. This was 5% higher than in the 2020 comparison group and 1.65% higher than individuals diagnosed as having viral lower respiratory tract illness. The risk for specific conditions in the 4 months after the acute phase of COVID-19 – including chronic respiratory failure, heart rhythm problems, amnesia, diabetes, anxiety and fatigue – was greater than in all three comparison groups. While the overall absolute risk was small (an extra 0.02–2.26 per 100 people developing specific types of conditions compared with the 2020 comparison group), it persisted up to 6 months after initial infection. Risk increased with age, pre-existing conditions, and admission to hospital for COVID-19. However, younger adults (aged 50 years and under), those with no pre-existing conditions and those who recovered at home were also at risk for new conditions several months after initial infection. The researchers point out that this was an observational study".

Regards from Perth

Derek

statistics missing in action

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The following is not meant to diminish the risk of this virus. Stop being fearful of the vaccine and get vaccinated. Rather, the risk is worrying about conclusions drawn from analyses that are incomplete and unconfirmed.

This was 5% higher than in the 2020 comparison group and 1.65% higher than individuals diagnosed as having viral lower respiratory tract illness. These are tiny differences, more tiny still given that there are several times more infections than what are reported. Unless somewhere else in this report the error bars on these numbers are given, as stated, no conclusions can be confidently drawn.

The result is a correlation, a favored product of research whose objective is to gain headlines and additional funding. For example, a friend was hospitalized with a liver infection. He got the virus while being treated in hospital. A superficial analysis of the situation would conclude liver infections leave one prone to getting the virus. A statistically valid conclusion but one flawed. Going to the hospital in November left one prone to getting the virus. Being in the hospital could lead to any of the 50 health results these authors strived so hard to find.