"BIN Advanced" vs. Shellac

Re: "BIN Advanced" vs. Shellac

J Barrett Irby Jr

No experience with Bin advanced. I did use Bin (regular) to seal dog pee stains in a house. For the first few minutes it looked and smelled great. By the following morning it had brown stains coming through and the stench was back. This was a house I bought to flip and the previous owners left two large dogs in it for months, feeding and watering them occasionally. We ended up cutting out the plywood that was T&G and glued down, removing most of it and then painting everything with oil based Kilz. Then replaced the ducts and all the drywall up about two feet. Sure wish the Bin had worked. Believe it or not, that's about half the story.

Re: Off on a Tangent, Again

William Duffield

A question that has bugged me for a long time: Do you have "head to head" experiences with B.I.N. (not "advanced") vs. Kilz? I noted in your bad dog pee case that the Kilz was effective after removing significant saturated building materials and what was not removed was already sealed under a coat of B.I.N., but would the B.I.N. have also worked by that point? I've been reluctant to buy Kilz when B.I.N. was not available at the first Borg I walked into. The other Borg was a couple blocks away, so I decided not to experiment with what I thought could easily be another water-based imposter. Is my wariness unjustified, or does Kilz work just as well (or better) than B.I.N.?

Re: "BIN Advanced" vs. Shellac

Jason Roehl

I’d sand, regardless of what primer you use. Wipe off the dust, then use a deglosser. Then prime.

You said you only want to do it once.

Jason (~20 years as a painting contractor)

doing a light sanding...

David Weaver

..on the trim work in most places, but no guarantees I'll do it perfectly - so I like the insurance of the shellac. Will lightly sand the shellac, also, and priming twice to avoid any raised grain getting into the top coat and allowing tannin pass-through, or any kind of unexpected discoloration.

Thanks!

One of the things I don't like about the bin-advanced is that it sands, but it gums sandpaper a lot more than shellac does. The only suggestion I found online was to wetsand it and I'm hoping to avoid that.

If the job doesn't end up perfect, that's OK. I just want it to be good.

Re: Off on a Tangent, Again

Barry Irby

My understanding is BIN is basically white shellac or shellac with some white pigment in it. The two things that will readily destroy shellac are alcohol and ammonia. The dog pee in this house was well saturated and still somewhat wet. The dogs had been gone for weeks or months but the house had been shut up. Nasty. Someone had pulled the carpet before we got there so at least we did not have to deal with that and the poop.

It was quite a job pulling out the plywood/OSB. The construction adhesive did it's job well. We cut between the joists and rocked it back and forth to break the bond. Threw it outside in the sunshine. After a while we noticed it was oozing slime.

So, I think there was enough ammonia in the pee to break down the shellac. The BIN had come highly recommended by a manufacturer's Rep from a company that did not make it, touted it as better than whatever his company made. Actually, the first thing we did was apply Urine Destroyer from PetCo. Seemed to do nothing.

So I think if the urine had been thoroughly dry, the BIN might have worked. Wetting it with the Urine Destroyer might have been a mistake, in effect, reactivating the urine. Even in the areas with very little pee the brown stain floated through the BIN. I have no faith in the water based Kilz. The oil based Original stuff worked.

To give you an idea, one of the dogs was apparently male and had lifted his leg on the corners and the corner beads had rusted away.

fortunately...

David Weaver

..this is far less demanding. If I had carpet padding or wood or walls or anything saturated with dog or cat pee, I'd expect to smell it no matter what until it was gone.

In this case, there is just going to be some contact with bare wood and probably some contact with varnish that was incompletely sanded, but the job isn't that demanding.

Several years ago, I sanded down the other side of the one door that we are painting and somehow, despite priming and two fairly heavy top coats, it got little dots of discoloration. If I do the work or suggest the method, my wife will find *anything* and guarantee me that no contractor has ever done less than 100% perfect work, thus I should've hired the work done. She wants to replace the trim - it's old yellow pine trim, but in decent shape. For reasons of cost, I don't want to.

I'm replacing all but one of the doors in the house and also doing that and ordered them custom size. Again, my wife heard my house flipping neighbor say that he wouldn't do that and he installed prehung doors and replaced all of his trim.

This caused me a lot of strife. I'm kind of of the mind that your house should serve you, and in the case where it's not a big difference in end result (filling the trim that's there and painting it white vs. ripping everything out and redoing all of it in a very average house) that's serving the house. Everyone will have a different opinion about that, I guess ...but

..

My neighbor came out of his house two weeks ago and told me he had to repaint a whole bunch of his trim because some of it is splitting and delaminating.

I am busy at work and other than minimal assisting with filling and leveling areas (and installing the doors when they arrive), my mrs. will try to do the paint. This is a good step for us because she's very critical of my work and hers is worse. I'd rather she do work as neatly as I do, but if that's not possible, I'd much rather any sloppiness be due to her.

So the shellac is sort of a minor part of this as long as it helps prevent something major (having to do something over entirely).

I put something outside with shellac..

David Weaver

..at one point, I thought it would be smart to shellac the brass ring on our mailbox to try to keep it from tarnishing (another wife request). I figured it wouldn't last long term, but I had no lacquer on hand.

The first time it rained, the ring clouded up and that was the end of that. I'd figure even if the wall just had dampness, shellac would let it through.

report back so far...

David Weaver

..going to be a long time before we have a clue if any of the painted surfaces leech anything through....

..when you are trying to teach someone who holds a brush like a lance to take a dab of shellac and lay it out and then feather it lightly just once or twice and move on...well, you forget what it was like when you first learned to brush shellac.

We have some drips on the woodwork! I'll fix the worst of them. The real thing is what I was looking for, and not the fake thing, though. I suspect the fake thing may work fine, as mentioned, but trust the real shellac more.

My mrs. is like a border collie, too - she needs something to do or she is on my case - this runs in my family so I guess I tolerate marrying into it better than some, maybe not as well as others. Her work is slow and the kids are back to school, so it's been a rough go. Today, she did a bunch of priming and while I'm buried at work and can't help, she was downright pleasant. I may have to devise more of this kind of thing

Long story short, I still like shellac based primer, just like I like shellac on shop projects. The mrs is less convinced- she'd like primer that she can really beat up for a while and it'll still allow you to move it around, but I'm trying to break her of that habit as she'll be painting S-W proclassic and I recall that being a paint that is far better if you brush it out and leave it alone.