Colored resin

Re: Colored resin

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

I'd call Jeff Jewitt at Homestead (he makes the stuff) with your question.

However, of you want metalic items, I go with cold-cast metal (epoxy with metal powder included). You'd make a mold of what you want and then mix the epoxy and powder and fill the mold. When it sets hard, remove it, clean up any flashing, sand/polish, and install it.

Re: Colored resin

Clint Searl

I think TransTint and similar dye stains are fugitive. I would be more inclined to look at auto paint dry pigments. I get mine from paintwithpearl.com.

Re: Colored resin

Don Stephan

If memory serves, between Transfast and Transtint one is relatively long lasting and the other possibly fading over time.

chemistry discussion

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Jewitt doesn't make dyes.

Pigments are colored chemical compounds that are not dissolved in whatever they are used in, that is they are dispersions. Some fade more or less and others don't ever. Is your 20 year old red car that same color as it was new? The green copper compound Leonardo used in his paintings is now brown. Do you know of a painted bridge that remains the same color after 10 years of service? However, other pigments are the same as they were in 1470. Burnt Umber is forever. A lightfast red eludes chemists.

Dyes are dissolved in whatever they are used in, that is they are solutions. Stuff in solution is more intensely colored than when dispersed but that has nothing to do with lightfastness. There are many classes of chemical compounds that are colored dyes. These chemical classes vary markedly in lightfastness. The most lightfast are the "premetallized dyes". A chemist can usually determine from the dye MSDS whether it falls in this category. All the Transtint dyes I have looked into are premetallized. Many of the dyes sold by Woodworkers Supply are premetallized dyes. Some other brands of dyes are not.

Complicating the story, lightfastness depends on what the dye is dissolved in. More complicating is the fact that all epoxy changes color when exposed to UV light, turning brown more or less quickly depending on what chemistry is used to make the components.

Wouldn't art glass be much easier?

Re: chemistry discussion

Bill Blasic

Jeff Jewitt is Homestead Finishing and they make TransTint dyes which are metal acid dyes and are very lightfast.

Re: chemistry discussion

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Premetalized dyes are used in many applications. I don't know what companies make these dyes, but it will be a chemical company that makes other dyes. A good bet is that BASF is one source. Where ever Transtint comes from will be buying these dyes, dissolving them in some solvent , bottling and labeling. These latter activities are called "formulating" the dye, but that may appear to be a picky point. However, it does explain my statement that Jewitt does not make the dyes. That will be done by some chemical company.

Re: chemistry discussion

Joe Fleming

I want to echo Bill T's comments. Dyes are not archival color. Even the metalized dyes will fade with light exposure. Pigment (solids) are way more lightfast.

I did a lightfast test on 6 different dyes airbrushed onto maple. These were put into a San Diego west-facing window with full sun for 7 months. I used red, orange, yellow, green, blue and purple. Products used include TransTint, TransFast, Chestnut, ChromaCraft, SolarLux and Keda. TransTint, ChromaCraft and SolarLux are metalized dyes. I had sun samples and control samples.

EVERY BRAND FAILED. Some more than others. Some had specific colors wiped out. Some had fade across the spectrum. All of the control (kept in the dark) samples had a little fade as well.

BTW - Bill Blasic did a more extensive fade survey with more products and more time. His results showed better performance than mine. But he lives somewhere in the great white north (Pennsylvania, I believe), so his sun is less intense than mine.

If you are making "forever" items, don't use dyes.

Bill T - go to an art glass store or shop on-line. There are hundreds of colored, textured, tinted, and arty glass choices that you can use. Don't waste your time with epoxy.

Re: chemistry discussion

Joe Fleming

Not bill T - Alan. Go glass shopping at an art glass place. Someone selling to stained glass artists.

"Right Turn, Klyde"

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Joe, Alan wasn't asking about glass, but rather substituting the welded BRASS frame that holds the glass for one made from epoxy. This whole discussion about fading dyes is not responsive to Alan's question.

not the way I read the question

'stained glass but using epoxy resin'

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Agree Bill - Alan is looking for colored resins as field pieces, not frame pieces.

Henry

Oh

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

"Never mind"

Re: Clarify My Question

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I can't see it working. Epoxy is not a "glass" substitute. Acrylic might work, or it is hard, clear and UV resistant. But I don't see why colored glass is not the material of choice.

Color longevity could be the least of your worries

Dick Coers

Yes it will be sensitive to heat, especially direct sunlight through a window. Pen turners quickly found out about heat when leaving a resin pen in a car in the summer. A home won't get that hot, but will get warm to the touch and could present an expansion issue when moving more than the brass. Casting will require molds, mold release, and bubble control. With a urethane resin, that means a pressure vessel. Then you will have a lot of work to sand it flush and flat, and then repair a few bubble holes, then the long range of abrasives and polishing of both sides of the resin. Finally it will be an experiment to use the proper amount of catalyst. Again pen turners found they had to greatly reduce the catalyst from manufacturers recommendation to reduce the brittleness of the cured resin. Drop a brittle resin ink pen, and it's destroyed. Same would happen to a thin panel in a home with pets and kids.

That about sums it up. Nyuk nyuk

wrong polymer

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

A casting acrylic is what is needed for this application. I recall it was popular to make Christmas ornaments with a process and result similar to what you asked about.

To get the appearance you need to compliment the elegant brass will require a resin that has the luster of glass. Acrylic will be close. But I will bet that the shop next door that is selling glass among the brass frame will put your acrylic product out of business if the price is the same. Elegant vs plastic.

In its essence you are making a "stained glass" window. Visit a wholesale shop that stocks the glass and your head will explode with possibilities, 100's to 1000's. The challenge is to modify your brass framing to accommodate the glass. Then make a pattern for each piece. Take the pattern to the shop, select glass, have the shop cut to match the pattern, install and done. The result will make the cast resin approach look cheap.

If you need ideas of how to secure the glass in the frame you envision, go consult with a glass shop that does this work to make doors and windows.

Re: wrong polymer

Pete in Holland MI

Pouring a resin between the legs of your metal frame will be really tough to make the contact between the frame and resin look uniform. Most resins shrink a bit during curing. You would lose the bond to the frame.

Part of the appeal of stained glass is the texture of the glass itself. Pouring resin, you will either end up with the texture of your plate you clamped the frame to, or the resin crawling up the metal frame (look at Jello in a pan).

Re: Wouldn't art glass be much easier?

William Duffield

Alan, If you decide stained glass is the way you want to go, search Google for "brass channel" and "brass came" for the appropriate raw materials for your frame.

Subcontracting

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

It makes no sense to try to cut glass yourself. It is not like cutting regular glass. Sobering is that screw ups are very expensive. And screw ups are easy because this glass does not easily break in long straight lines. And you will have no market for cutoffs.



It took the owner of this shop, who cuts glass daily, 11 tries to get these 8 pieces. He searched the large sheet for areas that would run straight and changed the technique mid way to get a break that lessened run out at the ends. Had he failed there would have been $275 of scrap glass.

If you find a wholesaler they will stock hundreds of 2' x 3' +/- sheets of glass. They have a market for smaller pieces. So it is practical to cut what you need from one of the large sheets without buying the whole of it.

That's a fine looking piece, Bill

Re: Thanks for all the comments!

Ron in Sterling, CT

Alan,

There used to b large stain glass dealer on the Southeast side of Lansing. I bought a lot of glass from them in the early 2000's. Might check to see if they are still there. They were very helpful to me. Good Luck

Ron