Rotting a stump???

Dynamite

Re: Rotting a stump???

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Charcoal from tens of thousand years ago can be found in nature. If you try to burn it hope for success for if you fail the result will be there forever.

Fungal decay requires moisture. Burying it in mulch or dirt to keep it damp will rot it the fastest.

After logging it takes about 12 years for the oak stumps to rot, and some last twice this long. But keeping the stump wet will hasten the process.

Overdo the fertilizer and you will kill all the microbes you are trying to promote.

Re: Rotting a stump???

John b

Saltpeter

Re: Rotting a stump???

Jerry Nicholson

I was going to suggest the same thing. The main ingredient in some stump rotter stuff I bought several years ago was potassium nitrate (saltpeter). Potassium nitrate used to sold in drug stores in 1 pound containers as an animal diuretic.

Re: Safe disposal?

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Effective at stump removal, sure, but I doubt that this would be considered a safe disposal of sulfuric acid.

I hope your county would have a hazardous waste facility that could receive materials such as this. My urban county does, which of course does not mean that such a service is available to you.

Sulfuric acid is not a carcinogen, to my knowledge, but it is both dangerously reactive and very corrosive as a (very) strong acid.

I'm not trying to berate you Ralph, but I would like others to re-consider this strategy.

Henry

Its' all in the concentration

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Acid rain is simply dilute sulfuric acid and in somewhat larger volume. The natural buffering capacity of soil or water will neutralize any quantity of sulfuric acid one is apt to own. However, it will do nothing to hasten stump degradation.

Re: true enough...and yet

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Of course it is all about concentration, and battery acid is far from dilute. Soil buffering can likely deal with this amount, sure, but that doesn't make it a preferred or a safe method of disposal.

I am simply trying to raise awareness that there are likely better and safer alternatives to the disposal of a reactive and corrosive waste material like battery acid (concentrated sulfuric acid) than to pour it out on a stump.

Say your grand-kids come over and were play there, or the neighbors dog, or ...

I am not trying to cause commotion, but just want to note that there are better alternative means of disposal. Days, weeks, years later this is no longer dangerous and it has not become a Superfund site.

Henry

Re: Dynamite

William Duffield

Dynamite didn't used to be necessary. Back in the "good old days" (which weren't as great as they say), you could buy everything you needed at the grocery store for a couple of bucks: A gallon of Purex bleach in a glass jug (6% instead of the 5% in the Clorox bottle), a can of Drano (sodium hydroxide and Al filings) and a block of Gulf Wax. Pour off a couple cups of the bleach, melt the canning wax, and pour it into the jug. It floats on top of the aqueous solution, eventually sealing it off. While you are waiting for the wax to harden, dig a hole right up next to the stump. Pour the Drano into the jug on top of the wax. Put the cap on tight. Gently place the jug in the bottom of the hole. Do not shake! Back fill the hole. Wait a couple of hours while the Drano eats through the wax. Don't try this at home, due to violent exothermic reaction, chlorine gas, hot lye, steam and fragments of glass, dirt and tree stump.

Re: Yup

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Umm, not sure whether to highlight your info or hope no one else reads it...

Right, the important part here was the comment to NOT try this at home. In my view Chlorine (CL2) gas is really not to be messed with (in any concentration really). While this might sound like fun to the little/teenage/adult male, and it does to me too, this is NOT something to be tried.

From the first site on the search list when I looked for effects of gas inhalation: "Chlorine inhalation damages the respiratory tract, including the airways and distal lung, and can result in acute lung injury." Maybe not as deadly as I suspected, but also clearly a material NOT to play around with.

So posting a process for a delayed initiation, highly exothermic chemical reaction (a this is a b*#b is it not?) that produces chlorine ... really?.

Of course I know that info like this is available online elsewhere, but I guess I'd personally rather keep it off Woodcentral.

So I am on a 'chemical safety' kick today.

I'm NOT trying to be offensive (incendiary), or to take offense, or to be real 'politically correct' - just trying to be aware that these posts can be searched (but on WC searching is only possible if you know the secret handshake, haha).

And I do want there to be a real warning posted with these.

Henry

Perhaps I did not make clear...

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I am well aware of the concentration of sulfuric acid in a a battery. When the battery is discharged it is small, for the sulfuric acid has been converted to lead sulfate. But if I was faced with disposal as I once was (interesting story for later) I would dilute it and then dump it almost anywhere- creek, storm drain, limestoned driveway, etc. By the way if the driveway is paved with crushed limestone rock this is a preferred way to be rid of it. How would you get rid of a liter of concentrated sulfuric? Hint keeping it in its concentrate form presents numerous dangers, while dilute there aren't any.

So, I was visiting a kind-hearted person who had recently housed someone from the Mideast, since gone back there (Jewish). She said he left some chemicals behind. Would I help her get rid of them. Ok. So I looked to see what they were. Hummm, nitric acid, concentrated sulfuric acid and glycerin. A mix of nitric and concentrated sulfuric will nitrate glycerin. Whether it will nitrate it enough to become interesting I am unsure as fuming nitric is best for making nitro glycerin.

The acids got diluted in a bucket and down the storm drain they harmless went. I suggested she not invite this person back for her house was not a good place to practice nitration chemistry.

That person should be reported to authorities.

Re: Rotting a stump???

Stuart Johnson

Drill a mess of 3/4 to 1 inch holes and fill with molasses, cover with a bit of dirt. Will take longer than dynamite or sulfuric acid but will be safer.

Nothing superfund about it....

John in NM

Seriously, acids are about as disposable as hazmats get, because they are not persistent in the environment. They react and become neutralized quickly, leaving you with water & various salts, which are generally harmless. Acids are dangerous because they are so reactive, but that makes disposal of them easy as well - they will react and be neutralized in the environment, you just don't want it to be your flesh doing the job.

In fact, in addition to acid rain from pollution, rainwater tends to be mildly acidic from mixing with CO2 in the atmosphere and forming carbonic acid. It helps erosion along nicely as well as making the soil better for plant life. All completely natural.

Hard not to rant

Tom Dunlap

We're not supposed to do politics here. The chemistry that's being discussed is an environmental issue which leads directly to politics.

Please...dispose of properly...not poured on the ground.

Back to the topic of rotting stumps.

Cut as much wood off as possible. If the trunk is hollow use a short bar and nibble off chunks. Use as large a diameter auger bit as you can and Swiss Cheese the wood. Like others have said...compost it.

Is it a place that you want a tree? Plant one inside the hollowed out stump or next to it. Add a few shrubs and the stump will be forgotten.

I want to emphasize: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME

Bill Houghton, Sebastopol, CA

Some of the suggestions offered here could create real hazards; some may be safe enough when handled by people who know what they're doing.

If you aren't experienced, I urge you not to learn by trying. There's an old saying, "Good judgment comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgment."

Microbes

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Wood rot is fungus, technically a vegetable. Like any vegetable, you can help it along with fertilizer. Best to use is 46-0-0 urea (dehydrated cow pee) which can be applied as often as you remember, and keep the stump wet.

another view

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The chemistry that's being discussed is an environmental issue which leads directly to politics.

The chemistry that's being discussed is science and science is best left as science where there is a great body of experimental evidence to reliably predict results. Provide the amounts and conditions and the result can be readily calculated. No room for political opinion.

I was personally involved with a spill of a large quantity sulfuric acid to a large river. Initially there was alarm. A quick calculation of how many atoms of acid was dumped vs how much bicarbonate was available to neutralize it showed no cause for concern. This well buffered river flowing across a limestone bed neutralized this acid and pH monitors never quivered outside their normal range.

That said, it is a valueless idea to pour battery acid on a stump to decompose it. It will not do anything positive in spite of any UTube claim.

Pour it on your limestone driveway and you will promptly make calcium sulfate which I add to my tomato plants to lessen blossom end rot. If you understand the science it is straightforward to assess the zero risk of local neutralization or dilution vs transportation of a concentrated acid with risk of spill and exposure in route and handling.

Speaking of, when I had a plugged drain I was flabbergasted to discover I could buy a quart of concentrated sulfuric acid off the shelf at Lowes to pour down the sink. Unlike stumps this will work! But, there are ways this experiment could not end well. I would never risk it.

Agree

John in NM

There is no need to make science political - And I do not think either Bill or I intended for this to become political. The beauty of science is it informs daily life with predictability if you understand it and accept the cause and effect nature of reality.

Re: Agree...me too

Tom Dunlap

I like science!

Re: Fungus

William Duffield

That's what I was taught in biology classes, too, but that was a long time ago. The newer view is that fungi are not vegetables, but a separate kingdom of eucaryotes (separate from both plants and animals).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus

Another question/aspect?

Barry Irby

Since the stump has started to rot, would it accelerate things if I took some of the rotting wood and smeared it on the rest of the stump? Sort of seed it with fungi?

In my youth I might have tried William's home made bomb. My father was something of a demolitions expert left over from WWll. We had several adventures on the farm. He blew a stump out of his mother's yard. Very disappointing. More Poom than BOOM. Impressive in hindsight. The stomp sort of rolled over.

Re: Another question/aspect?...yes

Tom Dunlap

YOu're on the right track.

A person could take some rotting wood. If there is evidence of stringy fibers so much the better.

Mix with some soil from around the stump, make a slurry and pour it into the drilled holes. Let it rot...