Persimmon

Re: Persimmon--drop the 's' *LINK*

Tom Dunlap

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Why are you milling it

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

You should have a good reason to go to the effort to process these logs to lumber.

It is not a species I would bother with, but that doesn't mean you don't have a good reason to saw it. This lumber is the least attractive of any North American species- dull in luster, off white color, plain as a sheet of blank newsprint. It is hard and dense, should you need these properties. Mill for its intended purpose and not worry about distortions during drying. For most purposes limbs are useless.

Re: Why are you milling it

Liz Fleming

Bill -

The reason why I wish to mill it is two fold.

First - I hate to see good wood end up in a chipper or down the hill to rot. I work for a small non-profit museum and have seen some magnificent trees come down that we had to waste. Some came over due to their positions on the odd hills they were planted on - a few due to Hurricanes (Isabel and Irene).

I work with events companies at the museum and the owner of one of my vendors noticed last fall we were about to take down a large Willow Oak. He asked about purchasing the live edge.

I did some research and found that we could begin to mill our trees. Which leads to the second reason...

Second - As a small non-profit if there is a way to generate some income from these trees I am set to pursue that avenue.

I have been told that our persimmon was unusually large and that this may have value similar to the Willow Oak.

I have attached pictures of the Willow Oak that we had milled last November.

http://wp.nscdava.org/wp-content/uploads/20191130_101659_resized-scaled.jpg

The branches I would be saving are between 4" and 9" in diameter.

Liz

Re: Persimmon--drop the 's'

Liz Fleming

Thank you Tom.

Re: Why are you milling it

Steve jenkins

I took down a persimmon a few years ago that was about 14” in diameter. Cut it to fireplace lengths and when I split it was nice cream color with beautiful tight fiddleback grain. Guess not normal but just shows you never know.

Re: Why are you milling it

Liz Fleming

Thanks Steve - I guess we will see next week. I will be sure to post some pictures and fingers crossed will get some nice slabs. If not I will have simply increased my knowledge and that is always a good thing!

Re: Why are you milling it

Steve jenkins

No matter how it comes out there is always firewood. 😊

Re: Persimmon

Don Stephan

My suggestion would be to contact local wood turners, perhaps through a local turning group, to gauge interest in what thicknesses before having it sawn. If the interest is for 2" thick slabs and it's sawn into 3" there should still be some interest; if the interest is for 3" slabs and it is sawn into 2" there may not be interest. A local wood wholesaler for local turners likely would be interested more in a log than sawn boards/slabs.

Last year I was brought a couple short pieces of persimmon log and turned a couple bowls and made pen blanks (still on the shelf). Parts of the wood were an intense blacki which made for very interesting variation in the bowls. Persimmon may be on the high side of tangential to radial shrinkage - a slice I saved from one end of the log developed especially big crack from bark to pith.

Re: Why are you milling it

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I predict you will not recover the saw bill selling the lumber from the logs pictured. This prediction relates to both the reasons you are sawing it.

There is a good market for oak. I never found a market for persimmon.

Re: Persimmon

Liz Fleming

Don,

Thank you that is a good suggestion.

Is the wood good for cutting boards?

There was a thought to make some unique donor gifts.

Re: Why are you milling it

Liz Fleming

Truth!

My goats were unimpressed when I brought some limbs home and even green they made a great fire.

Re: Persimmon

Thomas S Stockton

Liz

Persimmon is in the same family as ebony. The Koreans used it in some of their furniture. It was also used for golf club heads.

I would head over to the forestry forum and see what they say, they arevery into milling odd wood.

www.forestryforum.com

Tom

Re: Persimmon

Dick Coers

It can have very interesting heartwood with black streaks. It's incredibly dense and not easy to dry. Milling it to 3" will more than triple the time to getting it dry. I hope you are treating all your salvaged wood with Timbor or another brand of Borate preventative pesticide. I lost thousands of board feet of lumber to a horrible powder post beetle infestation in a shed on my Mom's farm. Another caution is I am smothered in lumber and turning blanks and I'm now 68 years old. Sure hope the kids find a lot of woodworkers to clean out my shed, garage, garage attic, basement shop, between the floor joists in the basement ceiling, and house attic. You get the idea. Sawing because it's free leads to "crab walking". The condition where the aisles in your shop get so narrow you can't walk straight in them.

Re: Persimmon

Ellis Walentine

Hello Liz,

It's always intriguing to open up a log and see what's inside. My experience with persimmon is that the heartwood is, somewhat erratically, jet black in the center like its relative, ebony. I've turned vessels from blocks containing some of this heart, and they split dramatically when they dried. So, if it were me, I'd box out the heart, and then cut the boxed wood through the pith to release drying stresses and allow it to dry and deform naturally before working with it. The rest of the persimmon wood doesn't have a particularly high tangential to radial shrinkage ratio, but, with the exception of the quartersawn slabs at the center (or the quartered wood if you have it sawn that way) it's sure to want to cup, in whatever thickness you cut it.

Do us a favor and post pics of what you get.

Ellis Walentine, Host

WoodCentral.com

turning logs into product

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I remain skeptical that lumber from the logs shown can be sold at a profit. As best I can tell they look low grade and as such will yield only short sections of clear lumber and lots of knots and other defects. This kind of lumber is not in high demand even if it was walnut. While someone may claim that an "arty" board of knots and other defects would make a table top finding enough of these customers could be difficult. My pessimism for getting a profit from these logs is no doubt colored by the fact that our company had 50 bdft of persimmon in inventory for two decades and never was able to sell it, even at cost. You are going to learn that milling the logs and selling the result is not easy.

However, the thought of turning the tree into product the museum could sell has potential if a marketable product and a person to make it can be found.

Re: Persimmon

Liz Fleming

Ellis,

Some of that is all greek to me...but I am a quick study and will figure it out.

It is looking like I will need to invest in some equipment, just told my executive director that he will be buying me a lathe and some tools for the office annex.

Re: turning logs into product

Liz Fleming

Bill,

It wouldn't be for profit persay - but if I found an interested party and they could offset the cost of having to take a tree down (as in the case of the Willow Oak) then every little bit helps.

It has been interesting working with our preferred tree company - Tru Timber. They were great with experimenting when we took the tree down and cut those great cookies for me. And the discount for them not having to remove the massive trunks paid for the on site milling. So we aren't out of pocket for the process as the Willow had to come down to protect the house (it was on the way out) so that $ was budgeted.

The persimmon came down on its own so the only cost there is the milling - which is less expensive than having the tree company come out and clean it up. (We staff took that on)

I am taking a 'nothing ventured' attitude. I truly appreciate the group giving any and all advice.

Re: Persimmon

Liz Fleming

I will be crab walking a bit in the barn with the additions this week. But wise advice and I will take that to heart!

Re: Persimmon

Liz Fleming

Thanks Thomas,

I have joined a few wood turning groups as well.

Well, if your felling costs are low... *LINK*

Jim Matthews

It appears that your local technique may have promise, although Canadians might suggest a faster approach...


Crosscut goats