identify steel type

Spatk Test it

Mike L

the more sparks the more carbon, the more carbon means it can be harden. Use a grinder on a little piece and see.

Re: Spatk Test it

Jack Guzman from Maine

Thanks Mike. Exactly what I was looking for.

Re: identify steel type

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Large composition differences distinguish stainless steel from non stainless. Large differences might be detected by physical means- does it rust, is it magnetic, etc. When it comes down to high carbon tool steels the differences among steels is a few per cent this or than alloying element. One must know the composition of the steel to this degree to know what its properties will be and how to heat treat it.

A reliable means of identifying a steel is by X-ray fluorescence. The portable machines cost about $30,000 so only larger operations will have them. A large heat treat company will have a machine, as will large steel suppliers and users. Locate one of these facilities and you might get a free analysis. Alternatively you might find a nearby lab that has a machine for hire. An impractical solution is to attend a meeting where these machines are marketed and get a free demonstration which is how I identified the LV steel.

Or you might play the odds. Use what you know of the source and make a guess, heat treat, and see the result. A knife maker experienced in working various steels might make a good guess for some subtle property this steel has or hasn't.

How much effort, money and risk is this unknown steel worth?

Really?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Exactly what I was looking for.

Presumably if you are going to put the effort into making a blade you hope for the result to be a quality blade, with some expectation of hardness and toughness and possibly abrasion resistance. Knowing the type of steel, the heat treating can be targeted to achieve the desired toughness and hardness the steel is capable of achieving. The various steps of heat treating to achieve an optimum result are significantly different for the various steel compositions. Or knowing the type of steel you can predict the steel is worthless for your purpose for no heat treatment will achieve the necessary properties. How do sparks predict what you need to know to achieve a quality result, or avoid wasting time a a steel that will result in a tool less useful than one made from verified O1, for example?

I will leave it to the experts

Jack Guzman from Maine

I have been talked out of using unknown steel. What I have is a few pieces bought at a hardware store. I've been convinced that the quality of it is questionable.I can wait for my O1 to be delivered.

Got any tips on the heat treating? is there an article on it in woodcentral?

Re: I will leave it to the experts *LINK*

Clifton C

John Wilson of Shaker Box fame has a few articles that might be of interest...

http://www.shakerovalbox.com/articles

His article, "Making a spokeshave" has some info that I found helpful.


Making a spokeshave

Re: I will leave it to the experts

Jack Guzman from Maine

Cllifton, that site has all I need. thank you

heat treating tips

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Everywhere has a place to heat treat steel. Cost is minimal. Result is predictable. You target the hardness and the material will come back what you specified. O-1 is relatively easy to heat treat and some knife makers have furnaces to do it reliably but for the investment in steel and time I would use a commercial source to ensure the product specified.

Others enjoy the challenge of doing their own thing. With no means of measuring resulting hardness they can be satisfied that it turned out right.

Comes down to why you are making these blades. Satisfaction of making or need something you can't buy and making is a means to an end.

reasons

Jack Guzman from Maine

Bill I have plenty of spokeshaves. I am doing this merely for the pleasure of building my own tools.

Success assured

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I am doing this merely for the pleasure of building my own tools.

In that case you will be successful. In your favor you have tools to compare to if your product compares favorably. It would be desirable if you could locate someone with a hardness tester to provide accurate feedback. Many machine shops have them.

Tempering is the difficult part. Achieving a known, uniform temperature environment for this step is the hard part. On Forged in Fire the blades always harden successfully. When they fail it is a result of failure at the tempering step.