Chair tapered tenon question

Re: Chair tapered tenon question

Larry Barrett

Plans for making your own tapered reamer are posted on Jennie (John) Alexander's website - still up even though Jennie died 2 years ago this month.

http://www.greenwoodworking.com/ scroll to the bottom of the page.

Elia Bizzarri is a Windsor chair maker and he also makes and sells both tapered reamers and tenon cutters.

http://handtoolwoodworking.com/tools-and-supplies/

Tim Manney also makes tapered reamers.

https://www.timmanney.com/

Re: Chair tapered tenon question

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Hi Barry

Since you have made your own reamer, you need to make the taper cutter for the tenon as well. This way they match one another.

Making the cutter is easy - just bore out a hole (the size of the wedged end) in a block of wood, ream it out with your new reamer, plane it down until the hole opens up, and then clamp a plane blade across it. Not much to it.

Here are some of the chair making tools I made: a couple of travishers (different curves), a 7 degree reamer and tenon cutter (in the background). The designs are those of Peter Galbert.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Chair tapered tenon question

Mike in Zuni VA

Barry,

Lee Valley sells the reamers and the tapered rounder(matched set). They are very well made and extremely sharp, and the thing that will probably get your attention is that they are very economically priced. I would say cheap, but to some that may infer quality concerns. These things are well made and designed. I have had mine at least 5 years and have not had to sharpen them. The reamer can be used in a brace. I use a spoffard brace which I feel gives me more control or there is a "T" handle for it as well. If you want try mine you are more than welcome.

Mike in Zuni VA

Re: Chair tapered tenon question

William Duffield

Tim Manney has instructions for making a tenon cutter on his blog.

http://timmanneychairmaker.blogspot.com/2015/06/use-your-reamer-to-make-matching-tenon.html

Re: Chair tapered tenon question

Jack Guzman from Maine

I have a matching reamer and tenon cutter but I prefer making my tenons with the lathe. I cut a hole in a block of wood and ream it to the proper size. Then I cut the block in half through the center of the reamed hole. I use a half block as a gauge to check the shape of my tenon as I turn it. If this doesn't compute I can take pictures.

Thanks, Larry

Barry Irby

I went the various sites you posted.

I am making a reamer almost exactly like the first one recommended. I am using Osage Orange because it's harder than Woodpeckers Lips. Learned a lot from the various posts. Did not understand the advantage of making it taller. Gives you a better sight line. Already had the compass saw blade. Ground the teeth off because leaving them on did not make sense.

I will study those sites more. Thanks again.

Thanks Derek....

Barry Irby

Thanks, do you find the depth screw useful?

Good looking tools. Not sure I want to get drawn into this much further.

Thanks Mike....

Barry Irby

Funny thing...I went to Lee Valley and the pair, Reamer and Taper device were well over $100 and then they redirected me to the US site and they were less than a hundred. Much more tempting. That $100 bill must be some sort of psychological barrier.

If my homemade one does not work out I probably will order from them.

Thanks William....

Barry Irby

going to study Tim's site some more. Looks like something I could do. I am making two stools for a friend and this will be a test run. A test of my patience and desire to make more.

Re: Thanks, Larry

William Duffield

If one did not have a compass saw blade, two or three reamer blades could be made from a wide drywall spackle and taping knife. You can find them in effective widths from 10" to 20".

Re: Thanks Mike....

Mike in Zuni VA

Barry,

I believe you may have been looking at the wrong items:

Look at Item 05J6201, Large Standard Reamer $27.50

Item 05J6107, 9/16" Tapered Tenon Cutter $46.50 This has gone up since I bought. I got the two for less $50.00 when I bought it, might have around $38.00 for the two. Like you I am cheap.

Item 05J4115, Tenon Cutter Brace Adapter $10.90

Total $84.90

I believe this order would qualify for free shipping.

I like the angle on these versus the one made with a keyhole saw. The Lee Valley combo makes a locking taper whereas the homemade ones do not. When I was doing the wood working shows, I would lightly tap a leg into a seat bottom and clamp the seat to the work bench with a hold fast. I would then pickup the end of the bench by lifting up on the leg. Give a slight twist and it would release. Makes for a very sound seat to leg connection.

Mike in Zuni VA

You gave me the same advice, and it works

Bruce, a MN Galoot

very well. Price is right, too.

There are angles involved.

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Note that the design of Tim Manney items are the work of Peter Galbert.

Peter is an acclaimed chairmaker. He has argued for the taper angle of the mortice and tenon to be 7 degrees - that a low angle holds more tightly than a higher angle. The Lee Valley version is 13 degrees. I have these as well and they are beautifully made. They are the choice of Chris Schwarz, who makes a great deal if staked furniture.

I cannot make a statement about the holding power of each, which is better. I have only made a few pieces with each. The advantage of the LV version is that they are perfectly matched by the factory. The shopmade version is up to you.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Thanks Mike....That"s better

Barry Irby

I did look at the wrong reamer

I just finished making mine and it seems to work well enough.

I think I am going to try it and turn the tenons on the lathe. I only have 8 to do and If I understand the process I would have to put them on the lathe and turn a straight tenon in order to use the Lee Valley taper gadget.

What's really strange is I got a set of taper Devices at a tool auction and figured I would never use them and sold them. One of the few times my Hoarding Gene did not save me from myself. Actually, I think the ones I sold were too small. I am sticking with that story.

Hope you recover well and quickly from your surgery. When I woke up I looked like I had been in a knife fight and lost.

Re: Chair tapered tenon question

TomD

Don't get fussed about the reamer. I hacked one out of the forest while I was stuck at the farm, away from my tools. Everything had to be done by hand with drawknife or shave. All the handle part does is hold the saw blade steady and aligned. Lee Valley sells some reamers that I have used, and I also have the Emhoff (?) ones that are precision machined, as well as his spoon bits. I actually prefer the home made Alexander ones. They seem to cut better. I think the fancy machined ones have one advantage in that you can steer them as you go, which makes it super easy to pick up an angle when you are doing a one off, though if you rely on that, the hole with be perfectly angled, but possibly a fraction off the mark, so it is better to just get it right with the drilling.

Self-guided reamer (video link)

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

I came across this video by Peter Galbert a few months ago. Simple and clever ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzyfiEVGRLE

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Thanks Mike....That"s better

Paul Leuba

I use that tenon cutter for tapered tenons on Windsor chairs. I have had the best results by turning a taper that is 1/8th inch larger at both the top and bottom ends of the tenon. This ensures that the final taper after using the cutter is perfectly coaxial with the leg. Using the tool on a cylindrical tenon to start provides the possibility of skewing the final tenon a little out of line with the axis of the leg. A very small change in that angle is multiplied Along the length of the leg when the tenon is inserting into the mortise. It ends up with a set of chair legs looking a bit like a spider. Don’t ask how I know.

Paul in Hunt Valley, MD

Re: Thanks Mike....That"s better...Paul?

Barry Irby

1/8" top and bottom? So you ream from both sides? That means the hole would be hourglass shaped. How do you flare the tenon at the top and not leave gaps? Ah Ha! are you using two wedges at right angles?

Interesting...and another question???

Barry Irby

I will check that out and see if I can make it work.

I made a reamer and it worked well. I have reamed exactly one hole. Don't want to wear it out.

Have I mentioned the Magic Soap Bubble? When something is working well, it's in the Magic Soap Bubble, leave it alone, don't touch it, don't oil it, no maintenance, nothing. If you fiddle with it you burst the bubble and the magic is gone. Think about the last time you replace the Fragilator on your car just because it was time.

In the dim recessed of memory I remembered making a Tapered bit, I needed two tapered bushings of wood for an antique reel lawn mower. Used a spade bit and ground it to a taper. Drilled the holes and cut out the bushings and turned the exterior on the wood lathe. They worked fine. Wonder if you could drill chair seats that way?

By Way of Clarification

Paul Leuba

The tool I have creates a 2” long conical tenon at A 13 degree included angle. (6 1/2 degree taper). This geometry yields a tenon 2” long where the large diameter is 1” and the small diameter is 5/8”. Therefore, I turn a 2” long conical rough tenon on the end of the leg that is 1 1/8” at the large end, and 3/4 on the small end.

Then, several turns with the tenoning tool results in a perfectly coaxial tenon.

Paul in Hunt Valley, MD

Re: Interesting...and another question???

Joe Bradshaw

Barry, I make stools. I use a bridge reamer to taper the holes in the seat. I first drill a 5/8" hole in the seat. I have a jig that I made to fit on my drill press table. I have tapered pieces on the jig(12 degrees). Once I have the first holes drilled, I use the bridge reamer to taper the holes. I turn the legs on my lathe. I made a test block Wirth the same taper as the bridge reamer. I can hold it up to the leg and get a perfect matching taper. Hope this helps.

Joe

Re: Interesting...and another question???

Barry Irby

Thanks, I had to look up a Bridge Taper.

I made one out of a compass saw blade and it worked well. A little rough and I have no idea what the angle is but its not much, about an 1/8" over two inches. Somehow it's seems backward because it turns counter clockwise to cut. Works fine, just seem wrong, but works well.

I turned the tenons on the lathe. I cut the practice one in half to make a gauge block and that works well Except I was chicken and had to sneak up on the fit. But, I am 8 for 8 and it only took an hour.

I have an additional question that I think I will post separately because this post is pretty far down.