Est. 1998 — 28 years of woodworking knowledge
Don't know....
John in NM
But I do know that this is not the place for this kind of argument.
Maybe you guys should take this stuff off line and handle it privately through email.
Just my opinion, I have none of the unenviable responsibilities involved in running this forum, just sympathy and gratitude for those that do the job.
out of curiosity..
David Weaver
I read one of the longer layman's terms medical publications from the first few months, and they mentioned that for folks who needed hospitalization, the mean time to discharge was 23.2 days after hospitalization, where hospitalization occurred with symptomatic patients.
That's quite a long time. 20% of the study population at the time hadn't been discharged yet, so it might be a little bit longer.
19% of the population testing positive known so far had severe to critical symptoms with recovery generally requiring time on a ventilator starting 10 days after admission (mean) - I could be off a day or two on that, just thought it was surprising that most of the admitted patients ended up on a ventilator.
Good thing with toilet paper is that I'd imagine that once people double or triple it up, the supply will catch up without too much issue.
(plus, those with severe symptoms sound like they'll be using the hospital's toilet paper, and not theirs. Hope for a budget allocation for reasonable quality!!!)
But isn't ground zero wuhan china?
Re: It's not a "Chinese Virus"
Brian from monument colorado
From the CDC webpage.
Covid-19 aka SARS-CoV-2 was first reported in China.
That kinda makes it a Chinese virus (my opinion).
By the way caronavirus is a family of virus including Covid-19, so that is too vague a name.
Also it appears that Chinese virus is a suitable nickname.
Most everyone on this page appears to know EXACTLY what the subject is.
Re: It's not a "Chinese Virus"
Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN
What about "Spanish flu"? That should be just as offensive, yet that is the name by which the pandemic of the 1910s is commonly and forever known.
Yawn.
Jason
German measles
Wood Central is a model....
Barry Irby
of social distancing and teleworking. It's doubtful any of us will ever catch this whatever we call it from each other. For those of you close enough to interact personally, keep your distance.
What's In A Name
Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey
1918 - "Spanish Flu"
1957 - "Asian Flu"
1968 - "Hong Kong Flu" [British?]
2002 - "SARS" [Guangdong, China]
2003 - "Bird Flu" [Hong Kong again]
2003 - "MERS" [short for "Middle East Respiratory Syndrome" [Arabia]]
2010 - "Swine Flu" a/k/a "H1N1" [Mexico/US "Tex-Mex Flu"?]
2020 - "Huwan Flu" [China again]
Nobody's intimating that China is the cause of all influenza pandemics, notwithstanding that 5 out of the 8 originated there, but it's very important medically to keep the various strains identified and to be able to trace and find the source.
You seem easily offended, Paul.
Re: It's not a "Chinese Virus"
Paul Woolson
The name of the virus is SARS-CoV-2 which stands for "severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2"
The disease is named COVID-19 which stands for "coronavirus disease 2019".
The long standing tradition of the scientific community of naming viruses after locations or animals by the scientist(s) who discovered them was officially abandoned by the scientific community five years ago and a new process was established within the scientific community for naming newly discovered viruses. That's where the name SARS-CoV-2 came from, unlike "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese virus" which came solely from the media. The same media that people are so fond of trashing and calling fake news because they are unreliable and not credible. But, suddenly, when it comes to using a fake name for the virus, the media have somehow become a reliable and credible source. Funny how that works.
Do you know what? I'm going to agree...
John in NM
Not because I find the term offensive, and not because I doubt the geographical origin (has been genetically proven to be Chinese), but because geographical naming is unscientifically vague. From what I've been reading this morning, COVID-19 is closely related to SARS, just as Spanish Flu, Mexico Flu, and Swine Flu that popular naming would have you think are different were all basically H1N1 influenza.
I find the more accurate naming conventions to be more useful.
And truth be told, I actually got more out of this portion of the discussion than others - Paul made me think a bit (more of a challenge the older I get! 
) and go do some reading. That is valuable, so thanks Paul.
Mark M is one of my favorite guys to argue with He makes me think too.
Ooops, crossed in the ether...
John in NM
I stand by what I just said completely, and I'll also observe that it is a mistake to blame the media too much, regardless of one's political bent.
They had to call it something early on, before the genetic work was done that demonstrated what we now know - its a SARS relative. All of the media was likely using either the geographic descriptor or the general name of corona a few weeks ago, and that will linger for a while yet until more accurate names stick in people's heads.
To date I've read only a few sensible media articles, regardless of political flavor of the authors. Most of the reason I read media rather than watch it is that almost everyone can write more coherently than they speak (ok, twitter is a distinct exception to that statement!).
Anyway, the point is that these days more than ever I find it important to take all media with a grain of salt, and forgive them all a bit for their idiocies - both sides have them. You and I have our own idiocies too, we're just not broadcasting them to a huge audience (just the small one here ). The news providers change their tunes eventually, its good to understand why.
Re: It's not a "Chinese Virus"
paul in AZ
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/us/disease-outbreaks-xenophobia-history/index.html
Just
Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey
doin' my job, John.
Racists will seize on any excuse to justify their ignorance and vitriol. I can understand Paul's point, but overreaction to innocent speech is not the way to combat it.
Re: It's not a "Chinese Virus"
Brian from monument colorado
Problem with any naming convention like that to produce the SARS based name is harder to remember and learn than a simple name that is historically related to the condition.
Like it or not the simpler name Chinese virus is easier to learn than the SARS based name and everyone on this page appeared to know what was being addressed.
Yes I did find the SARS based name on the Texas health page. BUT Had NOT seen nor heard it prior to that.
The Covid-19 name is easier to understand but had not been seen often enough to learn until recently.
Remember that this situation is rapidly evolving and better and better info is coming to light.
PLease note next statement is a WHATIF and not fact and not supported by any fact I know at this time.
But what will it be called when it is discovered that this virus was really a chinese created weapon.
Re: Just
Walter Ahlgrim
The way I see it the Chinese government does not like the idea that the world would blame them for the poor sanitation practices of their food supply that adapted this virus to humans and now killing thousands.
So they must stamp out the terms Chinese virus and Wuhan virus. Easy enough in China. But to clean the rest of the internet communist’s must convince useful tools to believe the propaganda and sensor the net for them.
Walta
Re: OT battling the Chinese virus
Johanna Johanson
Check this out, especially if you are a Simon and Garfunkel fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32j8JPO4eqE
Re: OT battling the Chinese virus
Michael Farinella
Good one, thanks.
Re: Do you know what? I'm going to agree...
TomD
Unscientifically vague is of no interest to me. Or to 99.9% percent of the population who are not virologists. I barely made it through the reporting on the various middle eastern wars for hearing people say "IED, Improvised explosive divice" at every report, for years. Say one or the other. Stupid nonsense, usually, as I doubt every single use of such devices actually required much "improvisation", and the addition of "explosive device", hardly narrowed things down much.
Fashionable piety aside, who is to say that calling it the Chinese Virus (a little too technical for me, I prefer flu), is offensive. If hundreds of thousands of people, including likely some relatives of mine, die because someone in China routinely ate a raw bat, then the culture underlying that deserves to be condemned. But that connection has not been proven as yet. Apparently there is bat DNA circulating with the virus, but exactly what caused the current eruption of the flu is not clear. There is also, maybe, something for China to be proud of in how they have tamped down their epidemic, and what has been learned and studied as a result. There could be a number of reasons for referring to it as Chinese. The Spanish flu may have also started in China, so the naming convention is not derogatory. In that case it was a matter of where it was widely reported, while censorship prevailed elsewhere. In this case China is the first place it has been widely observed and reported.
Simpler explanation where...
David Weaver
...these viruses come from and why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54
If these were originating in the united states, I'd hardly be offended if someone called them the "american flu".
Re: Simpler explanation where...
Wiley Horne
If these were originating in the united states, I'd hardly be offended if someone called them the "american flu".
David,
This is a friendly observation. It’s not the chauvinism that’s the problem, nor the technical accuracy of the term, it’s the threat of bodily harm, and other kinds of harm, to certain perfectly innocent US citizens and their children, as they go about their lives.
Wiley
Re: Simpler explanation where...
David Weaver
Wiley, I understand your same concerns. Nothing excuses throwing stones at people who aren't to blame.
In context here, I think it's more of a study in the evolution of language.
News stories here 3 months ago were about how bad the norovirus has been this year. It looks fairly harmless in comparison now. Point being, the mainstream media referred to the coronavirus as "wuhan flu" or "coronavirus chinese virus", etc.
There's plenty of it all over youtube (BBC, other sources that are generally particularly sensitive). AS time goes on, the terminology for it is switching pretty quickly. I don't think the concern of that is particularly, well, concerning, to the actual virus, and I sure hope that we don't forget the cause of this, SARS, and other viruses that originate from third world meat markets (and they're not just in China). As China celebrates "beating" the virus to this point, care is being denied to Italian patients based on survivability predictions (anyone over 70 in some areas cannot be admitted to a hospital - the outcome is predictable).
We have an unfavorable dynamic here and perhaps some other western countries. We don't house multiple generations in the same place and often like to put compromised folks together in care homes. Washington state won't be the last story of mass infection in care homes. It is a real and true crisis. How it originated is important from a problem solving standpoint. How includes where and why.
Fred Rogers often seemed to have just the right thing to say (because it was genuine). He mentioned that when there is a crisis, when everything is negative, look for helpers to find hope. In even the worst situations, there are helpers. I think bill was attempting to be a helper. I don't think the criticism of him was as genuine - it was a drive by instead.
I hope the ability to prevent another one of these needlessly happening in the future isn't lost in politeness and social stinkeye to anyone who mentions where it came from and why it occurred.
Re: Simpler explanation where...
TomD
Minimal difference, but I am tending to the Chinese Flu, though I actually pretty much use variants of Covid, as that is implanted, pretty much. Chinese virus connects the virus to the nationality. The idea of connecting flu is more more neutral. It is an event in one sense of the word. Like the different meaning one would perceive if one heard "The Gangster's bullet", VS "The Gangster's wound".
The other side of this, and something I am merely referencing, not promoting, is the reaction to the tendency in China to attach the flu to the US, and various other countries. There are also foreigners in China who are being attacked. And country's foreign to China are being blamed for having created the virus. Drawing attention to the presumptive actual country of origin may help, or just make maters worse.
Re: Simpler explanation where...
TomD
Do we know that the use of the term Chinese Flu/Virus has actually caused such attacks? People are well aware of the this Inciting hatred is one thing. I have not used the Chinese Flu term in public myself and probably wouldn't. But it is inciting hatred, when some people assume and tag as racists, xenophobe, or hatemonger, people who are using pretty standard nomenclature. "Racist", in particular, is a term pretty guaranteed to lead to violence, more reliably than the "flu".
Re: Simpler explanation where...
TomD
Well one problem with "flu" is the confusion around that term. So using that will certainly confound the pedants.
That illustrates my point...
John in NM
It is not "flu". Flu is from influenza viruses. Corona viruses are a huge family but distinct from influenza. A few are one of the many things that cause what we imprecisely call the common cold.
This stuff probably seems like it doesn't matter. It matters if you catch it, or anything that will require healthcare really. Accurate description helps your care providers give you the appropriate care at the outset. Accurate description comes from the habit of using language in an accurate fashion.
