Drying Red Oak

Re: European Beech is not the same at US beech

John in NM

I've never seen un-steamed beech for sale here. It's unusual for commercial yards to stock it at all, I've usually bought it at retail/semi-retail places, and even had to mail order on occasion (fortunately rare occasion!).

I've noticed that it waxes wonderfully - would make good drawer runners I bet.

I would have guessed that birch was the preferred fake up species. Easy to stain as walnut or mahogany and fool all but an actual woodworker - my mom had a "mahogany" dining table throughout my childhood, finally I refinished it for her maybe 20 years ago and found out it was birch! Even after I knew what mahogany looked like I never looked closely at the grain under that brownish-red stain, it only became clear when I took the stain off.

steamed beech

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I first encountered European beech at a trade show of lumber suppliers. I was told it is steamed to make it more stable and easier to dry without defects. It would be easy to spot for at least what I saw was an attractive pink. Makes sense because steaming removes some lignin and may alter what is left behind. Cellulose molecular weight my be lessened too because one can smell furfural(cellulose decomposition product) around a steamer steaming.

point of data - difference

David Weaver

I've made a fair number of planes. Maybe 75? Mostly beech.

I have made a few things of euro beech, and have a bunch of plane billets of euro beech that I'll used. Not sure if the latter is steamed, but some 8/4 that I received to make saw handles years ago was definitely steamed (the others is kiln dried).

Once beech is steamed, aside from having more uniform color, the texture of the wood to a hand woodworker (where you really feel it, handsawing, mortising, rasping, etc) is much more dry feeling. Fruitwoods have a certain lubricated feeling in the cut when they're air dried or kiln dried without steaming (apple, beech, etc) that wasn't present in the steamed euro beech that I used.

I'd imagine it's not just steamed or not steamed, either - but exactly what the process is - much like thermal modification of wood. Thermally modified maple is popular for guitars these days but wood baked at 400 degrees is far different (more musical, brittle, etc) than wood baked at 325 or so (which doesn't seem to do that much other than maybe change color a little).

Re: point of data - difference

Sgian Dubh

"Not sure if the latter is steamed, but some 8/4 that I received to make saw handles years ago was definitely steamed ... "

I'd be surprised if a superficial inspection couldn't tell you if the stuff is steamed, or not, David. The pink colour is a giveaway for steamed, of course, and is usually easily detected in rough sawn pieces. Of course, there is the slight possibility that the stuff you have is so dirty, rough, blackened with grime, and generally grungy, that you really can't detect the general colour. A few skims with a plane, if that's the case, would get you down to a cleaner surface for you to tell what you've got. And if this were to reveal a sort of generally pale brown colour, some lighter bits and maybe a few dark streaks, then naturally that would identify the stuff as unsteamed.

I'm somewhat curious to know what you have, because I got the impression from something Bill said earlier in this thread, that it might be the case only steamed European beech makes it over to North America to the wood merchants.

I also wonder if American beech sometimes, or even commonly, receives a similar steaming treatment to that which European beech is subjected, and if it's for the same reasons. I can't recall ever using American beech in projects, not even during the ten years I lived in Texas, so can't drag up memories of first hand experience of the material to answer the question. I may have known the answer to the question at one time, but if I did, it eludes me now, although I could probably do a bit of digging around in my research into timber technology that I undertook as I wrote Cut & Dried - however, I'm feeling a bit lazy and don't feel like doing the digging around at the moment, ha, ha. Slainte.

Re: point of data - difference

David Weaver

As long ago as it's been that I had the euro beech, I couldn't tell you for sure what the pre-filthy color was (it's filthy saw handles now).

My understanding of american beech is that there's just no organized market for it and if there was one, dumping of european wood eliminated it (guessing the furniture mills that use it probably get wood from eastern europe more cheaply than american). But I'm just guessing, and that's it. A lumber dealer here in the states told me he has a couple of large boules of beech to sell in case there's a customer, but the lumber is "utility wood" and the market for it was ruined by euro dumping.

I do have euro beech 16/4 quartered billets, but they aren't pink - perhaps they weren't steamed. If the pink is subtle on some specimens, I'm probably too dense to notice it.

American Beech market

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

RR ties and paint brush handles

I have never seen beech on a sawmill buying list except for the occasional demand for RR tie logs and even here oak is preferred. If the mills are not buying logs it means there is no market demand for lumber. The logs tend to be low grade. We have hundreds of beech trees on our timber lands and there isn't one higher grade 16' log anywhere. I kill the beech when I have time to enable something useful to take its place. Killed about 2 dozen this past Sunday.

The wood is hard to dry and once dry it has poor stability. With all the superior hardwoods available there is no reason to choose beech. It is harvested for hardwood pulp, but if the logging operation is just for saw logs it is left in the woods. There may be some boutique market for it in isolated situations but the mills sawing 100,000 bdft a day have no interest in it because there is insufficient demand to attract their interest. If ultimately one is buying from one of these large suppliers there is no beech to be bought and you will never see it.

firewood...

David Weaver

...In southern ohio where there are a lot of large trees (those being the ones that have ended up at horizon for 16/4 plane billets), much of it goes for firewood.

I would have to assume that at its density (good medium hardwood density), it makes pretty good firewood.

When it's perfectly sawn, it makes a wonderful plane. I could see it being a good utility wood because it's not very musical and doesn't transmit shock too badly and wears well, but for any use where someone is thinking about making furniture, etc, I wouldn't trust it too easily.

I've mentioned before that there are some stands here (I didn't think it grew out here) on township hillsides. Not huge trees as far as beech goes, but probably in the range of 30 inches in diameter at chest height. From what I can see, they don't get too much larger before something kills them or blows them over, and many of the large ones were laying rotting - which leads to another reason they may not be popular with yards. They discolor and spalt almost immediately if they're allowed to lay or sit outside in a wet area. Without a quartersawn or rift orientation, they don't look like anything.

For that matter, I find plain sawn hard maple pretty gross, too, but it looks nice if you can find it dead quartered and clear - something I don't see often. I'm pondering what to use for a few guitar tops, and flatsawn plain or figured is common, but a near perfect plain quartered top is something I've never seen, and it would take no more than an 8" wide 8/4 board about two feet long. I had some at one point years ago from west penn lumber - why they were selling it, I don't know, but at the time, I nobody had good quartered beech that I could find and i was able to get quartered cherry and maple - neither makes a suitable plane wood.

I thought Bentwood rockers were made of...

Barry Irby

Beech. Was it American beech or European Beech or Beech at all? My dim recollection is that it was not good for saw lumber but could be split and rived into long strips that could be bent into the shapes for the chairs. At that point the wood was strong and resilient.

Re: American Beech market

Sgian Dubh

Thanks to you both, Bill and David, and Barry for responding. You've rather confirmed what I knew about American beech, i.e., essentially not an especially popular material, with a generally small demand. Yet, interestingly Bill, you mention railroad ties as an occasional use for American beech, which initially seems out of kilter, the wood being pretty much non-durable. It does however, in common with European beech, respond well to preservation treatment, so perhaps the answer for its employment as railroad ties (UK sleepers) and other heavy duty uses in external locations lies with that. Here in the UK, we generally shun European beech for external uses because of its lack of durability. Both species are favourite foods for bugs, such as the common furniture beetle, death watch beetle, and longhorn beetle.

In the days when I used to do a lot of furniture repair and restoration I came across a lot of European beech used in antiques in limited quantities to, for instance, provide a ground for posher mahogany veneer, or newer furniture of all beech impersonating genuine antiques that showed much evidence of historical common furniture beetle attack. Many a beech chair rail fronted and topped with mahogany veneer, and beech chair corner blocks I found were/are riddled with bug tunnels and exit holes, which seldom barely touched or affected the mahogany parts.

I also note that my sources indicate that American beech is good for many furniture projects, bearing in mind it's relative instability and some difficulties with drying faults and subsequent working of it in the workshop and, like European beech, it's also good for steam bending.

Overall, I find it interesting that whilst European beech is a relatively popular material for furniture over here as well as for workbenches, chopping boards, and tools such as planes, etc. Furniture uses in Europe include both solid construction and in the form of veneers. On the other hand American beech with its similar (but somewhat different characteristics) just doesn't seem to be very popular in North America. Slainte.

PS. I wonder where Johanna disappeared to regarding here query about oak? As I recall, a couple of us suggested some photos of the problem boards might help identify the particular fault being experienced, but nothing has emerged on that front.

You use what you got

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I read in a timber publication that 75% of the world's hardwood lumber comes from the Appalachian mountains. We have more abundant choices when it comes to what local wood to use, for many are available in plentiful supply.

In colonial north poplar and white pine were used for secondary wood. In the south it was yellow pine. England used white oak drawer sides. In many ways a poor choice, but there weren't better choices growing nearby. Ditto for beech. It could be the European beech produces more useful logs but in any case it was readily at hand, while poplar and maple were not. Growing next door and good enough is, well, good enough. I suspect shipping is much cheaper now than 50 years ago which has changed the market.

When there is a shortage of oak tie logs the market will open for beech and get promptly flooded with supply. Ties are impregnated with preservative. Inherent rot resistance is irrelevant. Wood is chosen for its mechanical properties. Beech must almost measure up to oak but not quite because it isn't always accepted.

Recent price list

Red oak tie logs $400/1000bdft

White Oak $450

Maple and scarlet oak $400

Beech $250

For comparison prime 16" and greater logs for lumber: Cherry $500, poplar $400, white oak $900. (Barrel stave market is driving white oak prices. ) In 2006 before housing collapse these prices were near twice as high.

Re: How hard could it be to steam?

TomD

For stuff like hand planes, steaming would not seem to be to hard to achieve, as they are well in the range of many steam boxes, and it accelerates drying and maybe reduces loss. Though with things like planes or table tops end grain sealing might be a more productive place to concentrate on.

Re: How hard could it be to steam?

David Weaver

Yes on the sealing ends. I have gotten some side checking on billets, but most is on ends. I could tolerate the amount of side check loss.

IIRC, horizon was experimenting with steaming beech before or as part of the drying cycle perhaps to speed things up (and I'm guessing they will probably not be doing more drying of their own, at least as of now).

I received some billets from them that were "good" drying loads that had honeycombing in them, and at least once, I was waiting for wood to come out of the kiln only to receive a message from them that the entire load was a loss. I think just due to time.

There must be steaming and then productive steaming. Thermal modification of beech seems like an interesting idea, but it's not one I'm going to explore. What it does to maple (in terms of making the wood much slower to absorb moisture) is interesting, and it's cliquey in the guitar world right now - I suspect the greatest value is places that sell overpriced parts can charge extra for it and use less well sawn wood at the same time (pictures of some of the fender replacement necks would suggest the latter is definitely occurring).

Smells like a house fire when working the wood if the target temperature was achieved, though.

Re: How hard could it be to steam?

Barry Irby

They must have really cranked the heat up n that thermal modification. The stuff I saw was poplar and it smelled like caramel.