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Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

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Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#1

Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

Barry Irby

Still suffering from the tiny shop blues. The question is what to do with hand help power tools while using them. I have developed the habit of laying the router or sander or domino on the floor between cuts or uses. (That's based on the premise they can't fall off the floor.) It leads to a lot of bending and stooping to lay them down and pick them up.

I have some Festool tools with the matching Systainers. There may something of a logic flaw in the concept of the systainer related to using the tools in the shop. You have to have shelf space for the systainer but then what to do with the tool while the systainer resides on the shelf. Does not make sense to keep putting the tool back in the box over and over. So, it seems you have to have two strategies.

So what to do with them? A little cart? A pull out shelf/drawer? Bungee cords from the ceiling?

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#2

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

William Duffield

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help, but what I do is keep several stacks of systainers on carts in a row along one wall. Then, I play "Towers of Hanoi" until the systainer with the tool I need is on top. Because of this technique, I strongly prefer the newer T-Loc systainers. The RO90 (small random orbital, etc. sander) is a special case. It is light enough to hang from the vacuum hose and power cord. Sometimes, I find it more convenient to set my shop stool next to where I'm working, and set the tool on that between operations. The vacuum hose and power cord are suspended from a boom arm attached to the ceiling rafters, with a row of screw hooks on the bottom surface that support the umbilical. Ball end bungee loops secure the umbilical and allow it to be quickly attached and detached from any of the screw hooks. Let me know if you need pictures.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#3

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

roger lance

For routers, I like to use some shop built blocks that allow the cutters to safely be place on the bench without mishap.

Of course, for this to work for you, you'll need a bench.....or a flat uncluttered surface.


Happy Thanksgiving.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#4

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

William Duffield

Of course, Festool may have already solved your problem for you. :D

One choice is the Workcenter Organizer WCR 1000, which attaches to the top of a Festool Dust Collector:

https://www.festoolusa.com/products/workplace-organisation/workcenter-and-sets/497471---wcr-1000

Another choice is the Mobile Workshop MW 1000:

https://www.festoolusa.com/products/workplace-organisation/mobile-workshop/203802---mw-1000-set

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#5

We could have a Ham Sandwich.....

Barry Irby

If we had some ham, if we had some bread.....

I could use that Festool stuff if I had enough money and enough space. My Festool vac is shoved up under a counter, out of the way. I am fascinated with Festool but still can't stand the prices. I think I can solve or diminish my problem for less than $400 or $600.

I see the hose and cord coming in from the boom or ceiling as being in the way. Do you like yours?

I did get some ideas from the Festool stuff. Will look at that some more.

Thanks

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#6

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

Barry Irby

I like those blocks. Thanks.

I have a number of flat surfaces. At least I think I do. I haven't seen them in years. I am trying to reorganize some shelves in an adjacent space, but, I have run into the BUT FIRST problem. I would move some of the stuff into my shed, but first I need to organize the shed. That would require throwing a bunch of stuff away. My Pack Rat gene goes into overdrive.

So, what I need is to haul away several truck loads of stuff, organize the shed, move stuff off the shelves to the shed, organize the remainder better, throw away a couple of more truckloads. (Oh no, not you my precious)

You see what I am up against, don't you?

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#7

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

Barry Irby

It occurred to me today that I have my planer mounted on a cart. The top of the planer is co-planer with the table on the bandsaw, so it can serve as an in-feed or out-feed table. There sis scrap storage underneath, but I could put shelves on the ends under the tables on the planer and they would be big enough to hold power tools and not take up any additional space. I could add a power strip and reduce cords to a more manageable level. There may be a good idea in hear somewhere.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#8

I built a small scale bench

Dick Coers

Top measures 14x28", same height as my bench. Even put a face vise and bench dog holes in it. The idea was that it would be a little back bench, but I use it nearly as much as my bench. Absolutely perfect to sit the dovetail or tenon jig on it too. I can slide it up to the table saw and lay a sheet of plywood on it, start the saw, and feed the sheet through. So almost a saw horse, back bench, and bench combo.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#9

Re: I've gotten used to mine…

William Duffield

I see the hose and cord coming in from the boom or ceiling as being in the way.

Yes, they can get in the way. My CT26 is shoved back in a corner under my radial arm saw table, and the pivot point on the arm is not too far from the wall, so they do not get in the way. The boom itself is high enough that it doesn't get in the way either. The hose and cord do get in the way, especially since I have an extension hose and extension cord so I can reach the bench, the table saw, etc. I have enough bunjis on the hose and enough hooks on the boom that they are manageable, and I have no problem keeping them out of the way when I don't have a tool connected to them. I haven't hung myself yet, and they are always off the floor and therefore not a trip hazard.


Free tip at left of second picture: My spring clamp rack is just a 3/4" square stick with a screw eye in the end, hanging from a screw hook.


I realize that Festools and these carts in particular are expensive, but I figure most people on this forum are resourceful enough to build something somewhere between stock Festool and some 2x4s, framing nails, pegboard, and stolen Radio Flier wheels that fits their shop philosophy. :D

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#10

Re: I built a small scale bench

Barry Irby

Giving that some thought. My shop is so small, If I am not using it, it's in the way. Very three dimensional. Top of planer serves as in feed or out feed for bandsaw. It's on wheels. wood going into planer starts over shop vac under bench and feeds out under wing of TS. Fence on jointer serves as support for work being cut on RAS. Etc.

But a very small roll around bench might be good.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#11

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

Yonak

Barry, where do you do your work ? Is it a rolling cart ? Is it some sort of table in the middle of your work area ? Is it a bench up against the wall ?

If it's a table, perhaps you could incorporate some kind of temporary slide-out or swing-out shelf like, maybe, a drop leaf. If it's a bench, maybe you could just put a piece of plywood over an open drawer or a small rolling cart that would fit up under it.. If it's a cart you could roll it up to a spare surface, such as your table saw or, some sort of auxiliary hide-away surface built into the cart.

..Or you could use a stepladder with a piece of wood spanning a step and a brace. It could be a T-shaped piece of plywood that would fit over a step and under the brace, the T cross part being big enough to hold your tools and counter-balance the shelf.

Repeatedly picking your tools up off the floor would be tiring for your back, I imagine.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#12

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

Barry Irby

I am mostly a power tool wood worker. So a lot of my work is waving pieces of wood around trying to apply them to various machines. I have a cart under the wing of my RAS that has a slotted top. It was supposed to be a downdraft table, and it is, but I seldom hook up the hose from the DC and use it that way. Been thinking about changing the top to one with hole in it for bench dogs etc. similar to a MFT or Kreg work table. I have a MFT but it's too tall for that spot.

I will have to check and see if there is enough room for a wing on that table/cart. Sometimes it's hard to break out of your own thinking.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#13

Picture please

Jay Lombardo

This sounds like something I would really like in my small shop!!

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#14

Little improvements.......

roger lance

When i posted the above photo, it reminded me that I always intended to make an improvement to these blocks. So, I found that I had the right scrap.....and I had the tools and the time.....thus.....


and that's sort of what a shop is.....a place that can always be improved.....with something minor like this......or something major like complete reorganization. And, if you don't do it, next year you will still be in the same fix.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#15

Re: Little improvements.......

William Duffield

Good idea. Your landing pads work a lot better than mine. However, I sometimes like to use a base with an offset handle, for example,


To land something like that, I think 4 pins at the corners of the pad, instead of a circular lip, might work better, but the pin locations would probably need to be adjusted to fit the particular offset base you are using.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#16

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

William Duffield

I found an old Stumpy Nubs video showing a shop cart he built that has some good ideas you might be able to use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omaAo--jAa8

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#17

Stumpy Nubs got tangled in an angle grinder

Barry Irby

with one of those chainsaw carving disks and nearly fulfilled his moniker. He recently posted a couple of videos on it on YouTube.

Thanks for the link. I am still accumulating ideas. Most likely will ig nor most of them.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#18

Carving disks...

John in NM

I have one of those saw chain disks. Using it is the only time I put the handle and guard on the grinder!

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#19

most likely......


Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#20

Re: Stumpy Nubs got tangled in an angle grinder

William Duffield

I saw his disturbing videos about the angle grinder and the chainsaw disc. I have one of those implements of destruction, too, but don't use it any more. It brings back unpleasant memories of "The Evil Dead." It's somewhere in the bottom of a toolbox, because my conscience wouldn't let me give it away. I don't hate anyone that much. I replaced it with a Kutzall burr, but I have not convinced myself that that is significantly safer. Maybe a Kevlar glove would work better than his leather glove.

The idea I liked best from his video was the intersecting T-tracks, but even that idea comes with caveats. They are sold by Rockler, who I've never done business with, even though I have nothing against the company. Since they are blue, I assume they are made by Kreg, and I know that Kreg T-track is incompatible with the Festool hold down clamps that fit their MFT tops and extrusions. Since they are aluminum, the mitered ends are easy to cut in whatever track you purchase from whomever.

Of course, Stumpy's arrangement of his portable power tools is totally superfluous for most Festools with dust collection. Unless I tartedby integrating my CT26 into the cart, using its wheels, I would not integrate the power and dust collection boom into the cart either.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#21

Re: angle grinder - Kutzall burr

rum

I can say from experience that a Kutzall burr will most definitely ruin your day and a couple of weeks after if you get it in the wrong place. I was mostly lucky and kept the finger and even the fingernail grew back ok (slightly elongated but not deformed and all there) after a couple of months.

I had one in one of those paddle trigger grinders and had taken my left hand off of the grinder handle (yes handle and guard in place) and was setting it down with my right hand. What happened next is sort of speculation because there were no observers, I wasn't necessarily cogitating 100%, and it happened awfully fast (a these things do). But basically I hit the on switch somehow with my right hand. This caused the grinder to whip sideways taking the top off of the end of my left index finger (nail and all were gone back a ways but apparently it left enough nail bed to regrow) and gouging a nice big track into my left middle finger. Today ~4 years~ (maybe 5?) later you can't hardly tell anything happened but it was a bit of a moment at the time.

Would a chainsaw disk have taken more off? Probably... I'm not super eager to find out though.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#22

Safety Lesson?  What is your practice now?

Henry (Raleigh NC)

Sorry to hear about that mishap/accident. Glad to hear that it has healed so well.

I'm trying to learn from this - as I expect you have.

Would you no longer use that type of aggressive cutter?

Not use a paddle style grinder?

Not use a grinder at all?

Or is the lesson to keep two hand on it until it is set down and stopped (what I try to do with my router)?

Or other lesson?

Note that I do not even have a grinder, so I have no experience with one. I have considered one for shaping wood - with exactly those types of cutters.

Thanks. One of the I love WC is the positive/learning attitude, and users' willingness to share experiences, even when these are not necessarily positive ones.

Henry

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#23

Re: Safety Lesson?  What is your practice now?

Barry Irby

I have limited experience with a grinder and burr. 4 chair seats and a bench. I bought the grinder and disk at Harbor Freight for less than the cost of a Kutzall burr/disk. I thought this project was likely to be the vast majority of the use so I went cheep. Got the seats down to less than an hour and they were oak.

For safety.....I wonder about the paddle switch and I wonder about locking the switch in the on position. I frankly don't remember exactly what I did but I found this disk to less frightening than I thought it might be. Keep both hands on the tool, let it stop, set it down without the disk in contact with anything, even when stopped. Also, don't wear loose clothing. If that thing were to grab your shirt tail....well you wouldn't like it.

And, like many tools, I have already found several more uses for it. Cut some metal track. And cleaned up the edges and corners of my son's garage slab in preparation for epoxy/flake covering.

I have had several shop accidents, one one the RAS, Lathe, and TS. Would be happy to discuss in detail if anyone cares.

Oh! And I got my feelings hurt once, but I'm not sure that counts.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#24

Re: Safety Lesson?  What is your practice now?

William Duffield

I have two of them, both Makitas but different diameters. One has the Kutzall burr on it, and I keep it chained up ;) . The other is equipped with a diamond blade for cutting masonry, including plaster, concrete block, bricks, porcelain bathroom tile, slate pavers, etc. Most of the time, it is installed in a Harbor Freight gizmo for chopping rebar and metal pipe. Just thinking about it raises my hackles.

There are effective and efficient hand tool methods that will accomplish just about anything that an angle grinder with a carving blade will do. Those include mallet with gouge and bowl adze, but even those can be dangerous if you don't have a method to secure your work piece (and I don't mean with your hand or your foot). I'm not comfortable shaping Windsor chair seats with an adze, swinging it towards my toes while removing wood from beneath the sole of my boot, but a lot of people get away with that method.

My safety rules for the hand carving tools are:

- Keep both hands behind the cutting edge;

- Before making every cut, ask yourself, "Where is it going to go WHEN it slips?" (…not IF it slips.)

- Keep your edges sharp. Sharpen often.

Re: Ideas for tool cart/shelf please????

#25

Re: Safety Lesson?  What is your practice now?

rum

Mostly slow down and keep both hands on the beast until it's fully stopped and can be set down on the bench in a safe fashion. I've caught myself cheating with the router spinning down a few times as well and this mostly put a stop to that also :)

I've also since moved it to a grinder witha "trigger" switch so I can more easily practice trigger finger safety as well (I can also get a better hold on the grinder with different angles - the preference here seems to have a lot to do with specific usage and hand size so ymmv on any specific recommendation). I don't really think that a slide switch would be necessarily better safety wise, although it may well have prevented the accident I had, the risk of it not stopping on release is imho perhaps somewhat of a worst problem overall.

The Kutzall is definitely way less grabby than the chainsaw style cutters so I still use it some where it makes sense. I did have a few months of reflection and more moderated use of hand tools but it's a super convenient way to remove a whole lot of material in a hurry in certain shapes (I was making a very large spoon ~36" long, 4" bowl when I had my oops). I haven't watch Stumpy's oops, but some people who are more comfortable than I am with those cutters had a lot to say about how he was using it, the upshot was that it was kinda like using the upper tip on a chainsaw bar and kickback is basically guaranteed (plus he apparently didn't have a very good hold on things). So like anything like this there are certainly "safer" (if not absolutely safe) ways to use them.

I also have a selection of angle grinders with other grinding and cutting implements on them. They're also treated with a lot of respect, especially the friable grinding wheels and cutting wheels as they can shatter surprisingly easily and have a tremendous amount of force. It's one place where imho a full face shield is mandatory.

An acquaintance recently had a very bad accident with a chop saw with a cutoff wheel that exploded, it took large chunks of bone out of both shins and he suffered quite an amount of blood loss. This was a fellow who worked in iron working for pushing 50 years now (recently retired just a few months before this happened). He's walking again ~5 months~ later but it looked painful. He was also really lucky it didn't get him up higher. Just the week before I learned about his wreck I was helping a friend cut up some 4" tube steel with a similar rig and he was squatting half spread leg in front of the saw cutting - to which I expressed my discomfort. The next week the fellow who had the wreck came wheeling(still in the chair at that point) to my friends place, so I got a bit of "and now I get it wow!!" afterwards :)

I'll forebear any discussion of tractor PTO accidents, growing up on a farm a few neighbours had a rather bad time :/

So yeah any fast rotating thing can definitely get you. The more distracted, tired, or complacent you are the more likely it is to happen. Understanding how they work and where the danger zones are before getting started is very important.. as well as (in my case heh) a basic understanding of physics and centripetal forces :)

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