MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Jim Dillon

Charlie, I'll take a stab at this. MDF definitely has its uses and is nice stuff for jigs, workshop tabletops/bench tops etc. It accepts paint well and can be used in cabinet door panels etc. The downside is that cutting/routing it generates a LOT of VERY fine dust making some sort of dust collection/masking mandatory. Some brands of MDF contain a higher amount of formaldehyde making the dust more suspect. Otherwise, I have found it a handy material to have on hand. The local borgs usually carry MDF of various thicknesses, but online sources can supply more variety. Hope this helps. Jim

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

CharlieL

Very well put Jim, I agree with you 100 %. In some cases I've sealed it with a couple coats of oil base Poly Varnish.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Mark Nowicki

Make that two.

The dust is awful.

Baltic birch only in my shop.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Jack Guzman from Maine

I work with mostly hand tools. Drawknives,spokeshaves,chisels,hatchets,scrapers. However I do have some MDF around my shop. I wouldn't build a piece of furniture with it but it has it's uses. Mostly for jigs and fixtures.I also use some plastics. I'm open to anything that will help my woodworking be a pleasurable experience.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Garthinsandiego

I've successfully used MDF and hardwood veneered MDF for door panels, both flat (Shaker style) and machined (raised panel.) I like it because it is dimensionally stable and readily available in a range of thicknesses and veneers. It is dusty to machine, but that can be managed. That said, I have not and would not use it alone as the structure of a cabinet or door. It doesn't hold fasteners well, doesn't glue well (except face to face), and edges are vulnerable to damage.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Dick Coers

I'm in the camp of Shaker and MDF should never be used in the same sentence.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

CharlieL

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't it pretty much a must use if you want to glue ip a Formica countertop ?

Re: Spinning wheels.

TomD

No it is not even a great choice, well maybe waterproof MDF might be, never tried the stuff. It is dimensional and cheap, that is about it. Can't think of a single use that would not be better served in plywood.

Well... I did make the wheel of a spinning wheel out of MDF as it is heavy and balanced, and for a quality professional wheel it can be the best choice. But I really hate the stuff otherwise.

It is funny that in the CNC field a lot of people who work in wood parts prefer MDF and say it outperforms plywood, though from what I have seen in those cases, they were people with pretty minimal conception of the structural issues involved. Though at some point better is not the issue, if it worked for them, that would be the issue.

I think banning discussion of it is silly. It should be considered on it's merits.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

TomD

One thing I would ban is the formlessly open question. When you say it "has it's uses", what were you thinking, and what are you asking? I don't think it is ideal for baseball bats if that is what you are asking.

Re: MDF, what were you thinking

CharlieL

Others have given some examples of what they use it for, and I like it because it is smooth and very flat. So one other thing that I use it for are Thien style separator plates. Cut, router, sand, and 3 coats of finish, and the air slides right over them. I guess it really doesn't matter, as long as I'm happy with the results. I just thought that I'd toss the idea out there.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Jack, how about a Windsor chair in MDF? It should drawknife quite well. A bit hard on blades, however. But no grain direction to worry about.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: MDF, what were you thinking

Barry Irby

I like it for patterns. It creates a lot fo very fine horrible dust when cut with power tools and you should raise your duct collection PPG to a high level.

It's subject to water damage from the slightest exposure. I understand water resistant varieties are available, but have not tried them.

I watch YouTube videos of CNC machines milling it. Apparently the complete lack of grain is appealing to some. They can map the sheet and cut parts in any orientation, maximizing yield and it is not as hard on cutters as plywood.

I have a few scraps I got for nothing I use for patterns. Can't remember buying any in many years.

In residential construction particle board in wet areas was a No No. In some of the houses I flipped it was a disaster. Can't count the number of bath, kitchens, and laundry rooms we gutted to replace it. One house had gotten wet and we literally shoveled it out.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

John McGaw

Some people seem to feel that it is an ideal substrate for veneer work, being flat and stable and grain-free.

I certainly wouldn't use it exposed in any sort of 'real' furniture but I'll admit that when I needed to build a floor-to-ceiling built-in bookshelves spanning 16-feet that was going to be painted anyway I did use MDF. It was cheap and at the local cabinet goods supplier it was available already ripped to the required depth. What isn't to like about that?

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

William Duffield

I will agree that due to its flatness, etc., it makes a very useful substrate for veneered surfaces. However, those who build period furniture reproductions, it has significant disadvantages, especially for table tops and case tops. It is too flat, and therefore cannot be made to look like a real wood substrate to the veneer. Also, if you lift a table made from it, it is immediately obvious that it is too heavy (dense) to be a cabinet grade secondary wood. As someone else has mentioned, it does not hold screws well, which makes problems for authentic looking table top securing methods. These issues may not be obvious to the general public, but to other experienced furniture makers and restorers, they make a big difference.

industrial grade particle board

Keith Newton

Is a more common substrate around here for plastic lam.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

Keith Newton

William your remark about it being too flat for veneered period table substrate reminded me of a tour I got at “The White House” back in the nineties. I’ve forgotten whom the curator said made the long dining table. I think he said that it wasn’t made specifically for that location. I recall thinking at that moment I’ll bet the maker would have selected better wood if he had known, because I could see several large knots telegraphing through the face.

As for screw holding, I agree it sucks. However there are nylon bungs made to be pressed in that allow screws to be run in and out as many times as you like.

Another trick I came up with if a larger screw has failed, is to slowly saturate the hole with the thin CA glue, which really fills any fluffy fiber, then turns it into a tough plastic plug that will need a new pilot hole drilled to even get the screw back in.

Gotta ask...

Ellis Walentine

What is the lighting in your shelf unit?

Ellis

Let me be the first...

Ellis Walentine

... to say I've used it a lot in high-end interior woodwork. Yeah, the dust is heavy and the holding power of screws is tricky (not impossible), but I've used it for substrates for veneer, mostly, but also for fancy paint jobs, like two-part catalyzed high-gloss paints.

I forgive its shortcomings in applications where they are not going to be a problem. For example, I've used MDF pretty extensively for veneered cabinet doors and coffee-table tops that were going to be glued in on all sides into frames. I've laminated double thicknesses to make passage doors, framed by hardwood of course.

My reason to use MDF is that it is flat and stable, and in all the cabinetry I've done, I can't say that unequivocally about any breed of plywood. Baltic birch is light and relatively stable, veneer-core plywood is generally flat and reliable, depending completely on who made it, lumber core has caused me heartaches, and flakeboard (including Novaply and other fancier boards) is only in my rear-view mirror as a countertop substrate for office furniture (not kitchen countertops).

Ellis

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc. *LINK*

walta

One of the art deco jointer stands in this photo is 1940 cast iron the other is particle board.

I think it looks great.

Great thread with lots of particle board.

http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87267

Walta




OWWM

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

William Duffield

Good tips on making screws hold. The readers of this forum who haven't worked with it first need to understand that it has these shortcomings before we can convince them that they need to take the extra steps to keep their project from failure or later rework.

Re: Gotta ask...

John McGaw

I fabricated my own lighting using "high-density" LED strip placed at a 45-degree angle under the lips of the shelves above. I was able to conceal the wiring because, for once, I thought ahead and allowed for it. The line-to-12v power supply and remote-control dimmer unit are screwed under the lowest shelf where it can't be seen but can be accessed. There is an access hatch in the back of one cabinet where a wall outlet lives so I was able to plug it in and then screw a cover over the opening.

Re: MDF, what were you thinking

TomD

Cool.

Re: MDF, fiberboard, etc.

TomD

Those stands are awesome. I once asked a vendor what beautiful material his rose engine lathe stand was made of. Turned out to be MDF. That is the kind of thing though, that if made of ply wood be immensely strong, such that if it got mishandled in moving would be pretty much impervious to damage. But from the look of it, those machines are loved.

Re: Are we using the same material?

TomD

See I think this is where it breaks for me. As an amateur in the use of MDF, I get it from HD, and while the benefits described are all there. I have gotten materials that smelled like skunk for years. But when pros talk about it, they actually know what brand they are getting and specify particular brands. There must be places like that here in TO, maybe Burry. But if I have to work that hard to get fried dust on a stick, I could probably spend that time on something more useful. Realistically when I used to be a wage slave, getting out to a specialty store, on banker's hours, was a vacation day.