Frame and Panel with Festool

Re: Frame and Panel with Festool

roger lance

Its a real upgrade to make such a back instead of using the 1/4" plywood piece that is often employed as a back to case goods.

And the Festool Domino seems to get almost universal approval.....and a good use of it to make such a back.....I'm using a hollow chisel mortiser which will, without question, take longer.

Most of your projects are in walnut.....when you make a back like this from poplar drawer scraps, do you simply finish the back naturally or try to stain it to more closely match the walnut case?

Re: Frame and Panel with Festool

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I just shellac it.

And, I make about as much stuff from cherry as walnut, with some ash thrown in for variety.

Re: Frame and Panel with Festool

William Duffield

For case framing, however, I will use longer tenons…

For longer tenons, you just need the bigger (DF700) Domino machine.

After I got the larger machine and adapter to use the smaller machine's end mills with it, I sold my DF500. I am regretting that more and more, because trying to use the large machine for smaller (and especially, thinner) work, like your panel, leads to some inconvenient compromises. I have decided it would sure be nice to have both of them. The guy I sold the DF500 to, however, cannot be convinced to sell it back to me.

Re: Frame and Panel with Festool

Virgil Johnson

Nice work and good use of the short wood. I did the 1/4 plywood thing like I was taught in school shop class until I went to a woodworkers meeting at Kelly Mehlers shop around 1987-88. Got wowed with wide boards and frame and panel backs.

Re: Frame and Panel with Festool

TomD

Beautiful back there.

The thing is if you are willing to do the real tenons elsewhere, and they are better where real racking comes into play for doors and such, then for a use like this one on the back, a biscuit joiner would do just as good a job. A biscuit joiner will do a very good job for the 50 -100 year work on any part of a project. I have mentioned in the past that when I got a biscuit jointer about 30 years ago, I immediately made a pair of Krenov horses, and these were fine even through the building of my 24 foot sail boat, where they supported that project, even when I was walking around inside it. Eventually after this brutal use, they needed to be re-glued. If they had been originally epoxied they would not have needed that. A domino would have been a lot better in that use than a biscuit, but double biscuits with a dowel, and you may have the advantage again.

So my assessment would be there is no pay-out on the expensive domino machines if one does real tenons in "elements" like doors, or real loose tenons (because they can be precisely sized, and fitted). And then makes "panels" out of biscuits. The advantage is mainly when you want to build elements using a technology that is somewhat better than casually used biscuits, and yet not as good as a proper tenon.

The thing is that when one can make the assessment of why the domino is better, one also should know that tenons are better in many of those cases, so who is one fooling. I'd use a domino if the price came down, for what, I don't know yet. But I don't know how much the price will come down. The biscuit joiner worked out really well with the clones, but since that time the clones of things like track saws have been very expensive. I will be surprised if there are quality knockoofs for much less.

A principle I believe in is that one needs to really ask oneself why one would buy any power tool these days that is not a CNC. A CNC tenon cutter would be so much better, and could probably be made commercially in the same price range, and by a hobbiest for less.

Re: Frame and Panel with Festool (Offer Enclosed)

Barry Irby

I have the smaller Domino (500) and have used it on several projects. Not an expert by any stretch.

If I were making the frame and panel back as your SIL did I would have made up all the rail and style parts with stub tenons to fill the grooves in the intersecting piece. Then I would have plunged Domino mortices right through the Stub tenons and slots. These can be as thin as the slots or thicker. Might look a little brutal, but once it's assembled it will do it's job and no one will see.

Once you have the Domino, like many other tools you will think of many uses for it. An example is it's a wonderful thing for make slots around the inside of a table rail to accommodate the clips or buttons that will hold the top on. Literally seconds to do.

As to TomD's speculation that "real" M&T joints are stronger, I don't know. I suspect he is correct, but I haven't seen any research that proves it. I suspect a perfectly cut traditional M&T is stronger than a Casually done Domino, but can't prove it. Another aspect is you can install fifty Domino style mortices in the time it would take you to do five or ten traditional ones. I am more inclined to "throw in" a few dominos than to do a few hand cut ones when in doubt they are necessary.

One of the things that holds me back on Dominos is the cost of the individual dominoes. (Yes I am cheap) I have largely solved that problem. At an auction I bought a pallet of birch or maple sticks that are 3/8" by 7/8" by 16" long. I have abut a thousand of them. The narrow edge is rounded. Unfortunately, 10mm,s is about a 1/100" to big. but if you reduce these stick to 8mm, taking a little off each side, they fit the 8mm Domino mortice perfectly. I made up several hundred in two lengths and now have what might be a lifetime supply.

So, Bill, or anyone else is listening, I will send you a gift package of the strips (unmodified) and you can make up your own and use them with reckless abandon, all for a small appropriate donation to Wood Central. The Domino is a lot more fun when you don't care what the Dominos cost. Also, I sanded a few of mine down to a loose fit and have them for making quick dry assemblies to see what it looks like before committing to glue. (Actually they were made out of a stick or two I planed just a little too thin.)