On topic this time, workbench questions

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

JohnV

that's what I'd do. Utility and functionality not beauty are first for me in my personal work areas. as long as the under structure is well braced and cross braced, your idea would be fine.

Use what works

Jack Guzman from Maine

Your door will work for a bench and bench dogs will work . The heavier the structure the sturdier the bench. You can get by with simple 2x4 legs but the bench will move around easily while working on it. Attach it to a wall for more stability. Woodworkers love an elaborate bench but simple works. I have several benches. I use my laminated maple bench to chop mortises because of it's stability but my most used bench is a 1" thick discarded oak table top on four 4x4 legs. Use what works.

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Sam Force

I used a hospital bed for the base of a work bench. Built a solid 2x4 frame and a solid top had the option of raising or lowering as needed with the push of a button. Paid 65 dollars for the bed

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Jerry Nicholson

My main bench is made from 5 layers of MDF and is fastened to the wall. It has a pair of 4 x 4 legs at the front and has a gray formica top. Heavy sucker! 18 years ago I moved it from the basement of my old house to the basement of my current house. That is, I let my son, son-in-law, and at least one of their friends move it. I don't think I will move it again but if I do, 3 of my grand daughters have great hulking husbands that will be tapped for the move!

Depends how you work

Dick Coers

Age old debate. I like the old school thought that a craftsman is known by his work. No better resume than a fine bench. If you like chopping mortises by hand, having a thick top and mass keeps everything on the bench as the blows are absorbed. Do this on a light weight, and tools on the bench go everywhere. If you use a Domino and routers, anything will do. Also, too thick of top can effect the way a holdfast works. They are designed to bow when struck to hold. If the top is too thick, the shaft will not bow properly and not grip. I've read where some still do the thick top, but counterbore from below so the hold fast grabs. I used a threaded hold fast from Record. Doubt if they still sell them, my bench is getting close to 35 years old.

I agree, and more ..

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Dick makes good points. Keep in mind that the bench is the main tool for those using hand tools. It is not simply that it needs to be stable and not move under heavy hand planing or chopping with chisels; it also acts as a reference surface. Sometimes it becomes a very large shooting board, using the surface to run a hand plane along. The bottom line is that it needs to be flat and coplanar. And then it needs to be kept that way, with regular checks and, if needed, resurfacing with hand planes.

For this reason the top needs to be fairly thick. Mine is 3 1/2" of European Oak. A veneered surface cannot be resurfaced, and this is a problem if it is not flat to begin, or moves out of flat at some point.

Hold fasts work well in a solid top that is 2-4". Soft woods may not last long.

Beefy legs are helpful in supporting a heavy top, but they do not need to be 6" wide or thick. Mine are substantial at 3 1/2" x 5" (three laminations to achieve this). The base is Jarrah.

The heavy legs also support a leg vise. This is unnecessary unless you are a hand plane user.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Barry Irby

That's funny. I bought a house to flip and there was a hospital bed abandoned in it. I thought about saving the mechanisms and making a cart that would raise and lower. The workbench did not occur to me at the time. I gave it away to someone who needed it.

Thought about making it KD

Barry Irby

As I age, I think more and more abut how hard it is to move heavy things. I considered making the bench out of these doors and bolting it together so it could be knocked down to move it.

Thanks Dick and Derek....

Barry Irby

I had forgotten or not considered the bench as a resume. Hmmm?

I had not thought about the mass of the top dampening the pounding and keeping things in place.

I had thought about using it as an assembly table and the need for it to be flat. Was thinking these doors would fit the bill, but had not considered reflattening them. Wonder if they will tend to stay flat better than a solid wood top?

I have a Domino and routers and do not do much hand work, but I am trying to encourage myself to go that way. There is something of the chicken or the egg thing involved. If I had a decent bench would it encourage more and better hand work? Do I not do it now because it's so difficult to find a good place?

features I find essential

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

1. I sit at my bench some of the time. I need a place to put knees and feet, that is, an open bench. My bench looks like a large heavy table with a vise at each end, which I find handy.

2. I rarely use holdfasts but I use bench dogs a lot. I keep drilling holes ever closer together.

3. I find clamping to bench with large "F-style" clamps essential to my style of working. Hence, a bench with several inches of overhang is important.

4. A bench is shop furniture. My shop furniture is functional and I give it no regard as to its reflecting my woodworking skills nor person. I built it 30 years ago out of the remains of a bundle of 12/4 poplar we custom ordered for a customer. I would hope that I have become a more skilled woodworker in that time. It is always covered with work so no one could see it anyway.

5. If you don't use it to make stuff any bench style will be equally useful. If when a woodworker comes to visit you show them your bench and not a piece of furniture in the living room, then spare no effort in its construction.

Re: Thanks Dick and Derek....

William Duffield

A bench top made from a solid core door will NOT stay flat. When I need a reference surface, I have to use my cabinet saw top or jointer infeed or outfeed table.

You do not need 6" square legs and stretchers. 4x4 is sufficient, as long as your joinery is tight and sound. I don't think we know why Roubo built his benches so massively (maybe he got a good deal on some massive timbers and didn't want to rip them down to a more manageable size because he knew he didn't need to ever transport the finished benches), but I suspect some of the recent popularity of the French bench is related to the effort to promote the translation and republication of Roubo's written work (IMHO, a noble cause in itself and a valuable source of traditional woodworking knowledge).

You can join the solid core doors to a narrower, thicker front section of a stable, dense hardwood where you will do your planing, and chopping joinery, and sinking holdfasts and bench dogs, and as an anchor for your vises. Hard maple is an excellent choice, but even red oak will suffice, and you should investigate the price of ash. You could even use cherry or walnut or tulip poplar. They will just get dinged up faster, but still remain completely serviceable.

Had not considered sitting.....

Barry Irby

Good thought. I was planning to leave one side open and the top will be at about 30" off the floor so it will be good to sit at.

I was planning to leave an overhang for clamping and holes for bench dogs.

I have a vice I got when I was a kid and will move that to it.

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Don Stephan

Several responses touched on this, but the first decision that needs to be made is how is the bench going to be used. If just an assembly table, simple 2x4 legs and torsion box top. If chiseling/chopping and similar work, a top that will not flex (so all of the hammer blow goes into the work and not into flexing the top), and materials and construction that will not deteriorate from thousands of hammer blows. What kind(s) of vises will you want to use, how will they be mounted on the bench and where? Will a composite core hold the fasteners that will be needed to mount vises? What is the ideal length and width for the expected uses? Cutting down a solid composite core door is easy, but the cut edges may not stand up to workbench activities.

For marking and sawing dovetail joints I've found a shoulder vise wonderful. But I use it more to hold boards for planing edges and ends.

For years I used easy-to-make workbenches, until finally I got tired of their limitations and built a Frank Klaus bench, which is unbelievably useful and efficient. Your choice seems to be design a bench around a solid core door because you have one or design a bench to best suit your needs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the either approach.

workbenchology.........

roger lance

Totally and completely ignore commentary on what a workbench looks like......such comments are useless. But, pay attention to comments about what a particular bench can and cannot do well.....and, be warned, that many of these comments are also useless.

There is no "one bench design" that is right for everyone. Figure out what it is you will be making and then find benches and bench features that will best serve your woodworking goals.

Build a bench for you and don't give a damn if someone else likes or doesn't like it.

Re: workbenchology.........

Barry Irby

You have hit on the conundrum. I don't have a good idea of what to build or what I will be doing on it. I am mostly a power tool guy, but would like to include more hand tool processes.

Re: workbenchology......... *LINK*

David Bassett

Maybe start small, quick, and simple and see how your needs play out then.

James McConnell wrote about a Student Bench he made for a local woodworking school on his blog. (Link below.) I'm sure it wouldn't be your final bench, if you get into using hand tools seriously, but it could give you something quickly to get started and to help learn which features are most important to you.


The Student Bench Takes Shape

Re: workbenchology......... *LINK*

David Bassett

... and link to SketchUp model (as a follow on, since I haven't figured out how to post two links in single post here.)


Student Bench SketchUp Model article

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Jesse Cloud

If you try to design a workbench that will do everything you might ever want to do, you risk 'analysis paralysis' and probably wind up with a bench that doesn't do any of it very well.

I have a basic bench - heavy, sturdy, and flat with 2 vices and dog holes. Its height was chosen for comfort with hand planing.

I have a 'close work' extra bench that is maybe a foot and a half long and about a foot wide and high. It clamps to the basic bench and has lots of overhang for f-style clamps. I use that for working on dovetails, inlay, and other up-close detail work.

I have a shop-made mini-MFT that also fits on top of the basic bench for Festool work. It has the grid of holes that the MFT has, which will clamp darn near any shape and provides dead square bases for fences and dogs. Take a look at festoolownersgroup.com and search for 'shop made mft' or "Paulk bench'.

I have protective overlay - part of a sheet of 1/4 melamine with a cleat for clamping, that allows me to do finishing and other messy work without messing up my bench.

I have a shelf at comfortable height for putting my feet when sitting and for storing parts and tools for current work.

Not saying that you need all these, but sometimes its easier do have an add-on than to do everything with one design - keep it simple and modular.

BTW, none of these pieces are built to "furniture" quality.

One other suggestion that only makes sense if you, like me, are less than anally tidy: do not build a tool tray onto your bench. While you have you back turned it will fill up with crap and hide everything you are looking for. ;^)

Analysis Paralysis.....Might be my middle names

Barry Irby

I want start in the right direction. I tend to keep whatever I have. Pack rat gene twitching.

I like your suggestions. I have a Festool Domino. The MFT idea may be a good one. I don't like Festool prices.

Thanks for the help

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

"I have a shelf at comfortable height for putting my feet when sitting and for storing parts and tools for current work. " ditto for my bench. Would not be without it. I find it wonderfully relaxing to chop out dovetail waste sitting.

I never understood the desire to have a trench in the bench. Maybe someone can explain why this trench is superior to having this surface in the same plane as the rest, aka a flat bench. My bench is 7' long and I store tools in use at the right end. (It is 7' because the lumber was 14'. )

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

TomD

You can get away with lighter material, but to some extent the really heavy stuff is just as cheap. You are in the range where firewood type suppliers, tree surgeons, or small mills are an option. The reality is many large purveyors of wood do not actually sell 6x6 pieces of timber, and you may end up paying a fortune when the full size pieces are lying around everywhere.

Also, even when getting materials from a mill, you can often fall into the range of a wholesale order. The one bench I built from a large supplier I bought some maple for the bench, and quite a lot of extra for bookshelf projects. The result was wholesale pricing that was dramatically cheaper.

About 10 years back I cut some beech for planes and a bench, with one slab over 4 inches thick, and 7 feet long, about 16 inches wide. That piece really surprised me by drying in about a year. Turns out beech dries evenly and fast, though the first few months, it was the most sensitive wood with a risk of checking I have dried. I lost a few pieces, but overall, once I realized the problem I suffered little loss.

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

David Yoho

Lots of good information already, Barry. I built my bench many years ago after starting out with a couple of pieces of 3/4" plywood stuck together and covered with a piece of 1/4" hardboard for a top sitting on a 2 by 4 frame attached to two saw horses.

My needs for a workbench then were a place to do hand work, pounding joinery, assembly, and an off-feed surface for my tablesaw. I also wanted to be able to sit comfortably and work when necessary. It doesn't have attached vices or dog holes but has ample overhang for F style clamps to hold work pieces. It's a strong heavy bench without any frills.

One other feature of my bench is the adjustable feet on the bottom of the solid maple legs. These are important to level it on a garage floor, which usually has a slight slope to it. This prevents stock coming off the tablesaw from catching on the edge of the bench.

Re: On topic this time, workbench questions

Hank Knight

Barry,

You have been at this a while. In fact, you have been posting on this board as long as I can remember. My guess is that you have a pretty good idea what you want your workbench to do. It's a great idea to ask for input from other woodworkers, but my recommendation is to take a pencil and paper, sit down and list what you want in a bench. Then sketch out what you want and build it. It's not the end of the world if you decide later you would rather have built something different. Most of us have built more than one bench in our woodworking lives. Don't get caught up in the concept that this will be your one and only forever bench. Also don't wait around trying to figure out what kind of work you are going to do on the bench. I have done everything imaginable on my bench, from serious woodworking and joinery to repairing kitchen appliances to wrapping Christmas presents. I had no clear idea what I would kind of work I would do on my bench when I built it. I did know generally that I wanted a sturdy, stable bench with vises and thought I would probably do a lot of handwork on it and use it as an assembly table. So I built a largish, heavy bench with a Record face vise and a Lee Valley twin screw on one end. It has served my well for 10 years. I love it; but I would probably put different vises on it if I were to build it today, knowing what I know now. Doesn't matter. My bench is still my favorite thing I've ever built, and I use it every day. If I ever get unhappy with it, I'll build another one.

Have you seen the Ron Paulk workbench? *LINK*

Dick Coers

If you are considering a Festool friendly bench, I love this design.


https://youtu.be/KnNi6Tpp-ac