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Is this doomed to fail?

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Is this doomed to fail?

#1

A.J. Hamler

Is this doomed to fail?

A.J. Hamler

My wife's sister wants me to laminate the top of a solid-pine table. This table is approximately 3-1/2 feet by six feet, and is glued up of solid 2-by material. (2x6's, if I remember correctly from the last time I saw it.) Also, it's important to note that this table is located at her beach house at Cape Hatteras where the humidity swings from about nothing in the winter to about a thousand percent in the summer.

I've opined that the amount of wood movement that table will experience -- but the plastic laminate won't -- will mean this project will fail in one way or another. The way I figure, one of four things will happen:

1) The laminate will retard the seasonal wood expansion/contraction on the side it's glued and cause the table to cup severely lengthwise.

2) The laminate won't retard the seasonal expansion/contraction, and cause the table to split when it shrinks.

3) The laminate won't retard the seasonal expansion/contraction, but instead of splitting, the wood will pull back from the laminate edge in the winter, and stick out from the laminate edge in the summer.

4) A combination of any of the above.

Also, it seems to me that if the table doesn't split, the constant shrinking and expanding would eventually cause the laminate glue bond to fail, and the laminate will come loose.

I've explained all of these possibilities, but her sister is insistent.

Any thoughts?

A.J.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#2

Ellis Walentine

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

Ellis Walentine

Short answer, yes. Why don't you just build her a torsion box with HPL on the surfaces? It will look exactly the same and will weigh a lot less. Keep the existing top for a workbench in your garage.

Ellis

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#3

Yes

Dick Coers

Flat sawn pine moves a lot! Besides the imbalance of the top and cupping issues, the seams of the 2x6s will also likely telegraph through the laminate. Just have her put a sheet of glass on it, dark glass if the wood is worn! LOL Much easier for you.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#4

Been there and done that

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

The laminate will stop moisture exchange on one side. You know the rest.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#5

Did it work on the TV show...

Mark Nowicki

...and did it take about 30 minutes?

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#6

Give her what she wants!

Gary Smyth

You've explained the possibilities and likelihoods. Told her of the vagaries of weather, wood, adhesives, and plastic combinations, and after posting here, perhaps some alternatives. If she still wants what she wants, give it to her and have a "I told you so" in your pocket next season. Mostly though, I'd tell her not to even consider you to build new or fix the old when it fails.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#7

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

E Phillip Smith

If you bond laminate to top your summary of failure modes is spot on.

However there is no reason you have to bond the laminate to the table. Lay the laminate up on plywood or MDF and float on top of existing table. For example bond to 1/4 plywood and make edging that will cover existing table with room for expansion. If she doesn't like it just lift off to get original table back.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#8

Will still fail

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

the laminate will retard moisture equilibration between the sides and it will still cup.

When I made my bench I put a piece of Masonite on the top to absorb abuse. It retarded moisture equilibration and the top cupped that winter when the bottom dried.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#9

Yup...doomed to fail.....

roger lance

Now, this business about your sister-in-law INSISTING.......

That's a bit of a problem. Rumor has it that the Athenians have already turned her down and if those philosophers and boy-lovers can say no.....well, we Spartans have our reputations to consider......

Like Nancy use to say....."Just say No"......

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#10

A.J. Hamler

Pretty much what I thought.

A.J. Hamler

Thanks for backing me up. Some good ideas here, though. The torsion box, glass, and a floating top are all great ideas. I especially like the idea of having a piece of glass cut -- just lay that on top (with the little no-slide things on the underside like a glass top on a desk) and my work is done.

Thanks, guys!

A.J.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#11

You Must

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

laminate both sides and the edges to prevent the seasonal expansion.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#12

Nothing "prevents" seasonal movement

Dick Coers

Unless there is some exotic treatment I don't know about yet.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#13

Show her this top?

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.


This top has finish one side and just stain on the reverse. It was flat when I set it on the porch, under roof but exposed to outside humidity. Cupped just a bit as the unfinished side absorbed water faster than the finished side.

Re: Is this doomed to fail?

#14

Re: Nothing "prevents" seasonal movement

AlanWS

You can encapsulate it in epoxy to prevent movement, but I think it takes about 6 coats to slow down moisture transfer enough, and then you will have problems if you nick the epoxy coat. Completely covering with fiberglass cloth, and saturating that with epoxy (which makes the glass cloth invisible) works for woodstrip canoes but would be nuts here. Other options include impregnating the wood with something -- also too expensive and difficult.

If she really wants laminate, it would be much easier and better to make a new top that will behave itself, from an appropriate material like plywood. She obviously is not interested in seeing the wood on top if she wants it covered in laminate, so this seems like the best approach.

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