Cutting small pieces to length

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

John Stegall

Great idea. Years ago FWW featured a pattern maker using an Ice pick. Some objected to the hazards and your idea is safer I think. But the ice pick worked.

The eraser on a wood pencil

DizD

is a quick n easy alternative, especially if the saw table is slicked up well. I use both.

Guide for small pieces

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

In this picture I am cutting custom Domino tenons to length. My experience cutting tiny pieces like these is that they fly about as they are released from the blade, sometimes reengaging the blade.

Hi Bill

While a push stick with an eraser is important for safety, there is an additional method you should consider.

Simply, add a guide that will take the work piece or waste away from the back of the blade. It is the back of the blade that causes all the danger and problems.

Below is a simple drawing of a triangular guide. Mine is attached to the saw top with rare earth magnets. As the work piece is pushed through the blade, the guide directs the waste/part away from the back of the blade ....

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

roger lance

And for those who like to cut their small pieces on their chop saws.....a jig that allows the off cut to rest comfortably in place without being shot off into the far reaches of the shop......

Note the upright piece of dowel on this jig.....it functions to stop the amount of downward travel of the chop saw which, if unchecked, could cut right thru the jig. Did I mention that this is the second version I made??

Great idea, Derek

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

Lee Schierer in McKean, PA

First off raise you blade up higher and the down force of the cut will keep your pieces right where they are when you finish the cut. You will also get a better quality cut. I would also move my fence father away from where I am trying to work. You can make an L shaped stop block to clamp to your fence to act as a length stop to move your fence away. It also looks like you could use a new zero clearance insert. Ad a backer board to your crosscut guide that spans across the blade. That way when you make your cut you can push both the held piece and the cut off past the blade where it cannot kick back.

It is difficult to tell from the photo, but it appears you are cutting 90 degrees to the grain and your tenons are wider than they are long which would normally put the grain running the wrong direction for a tenon. The grain should be along the length of the tenon not across the width. Your application as a custom domino tenon might call for something different.

Lee

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

Mark Nowicki

I use my band saw, so no jig pictures or drawing since none are required.

One of us doesn't understand.....

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I cannot see how the device you illustrate can do anything to aid the operation I am illustrating? There is no clearance between blade and the two pieces of wood. Hence, no wedge can wedge them apart at the completion of the cut, which clearly occurs well in advance of the back of the blade.

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I had a coarse blade on the band saw. Had I not, and in general, a band saw is a safer way to saw most anything.

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

How many tenons would you have teased out of a stick about 0.25 x 1.25 x 10" with what you pictured? I sawed down to the last 2" with what I used. If I am short I'll change band saw blades and get two more out per stick.

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

roger lance

Just as many as you.....and I still have all ten......and I will continue to have all ten.....thank you very much.

You do realize that I also could use a safety stick or rubber eraser on my pencil to secure a very small part with this set-up.....don't you??

Furthermore, I've got some very fine hand saws/band saw as well.....which work when needed.

This was just an illustration of a way to "cut small pieces to length"......not meant to be the best way.....the only way.....just a way.

The avid use of our brains for safety sake still apply.

response

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

What I did was safe, effective and involved a minute of set up time.

"First off raise you blade up higher and the down force of the cut will keep your pieces right where they are when you finish the cut." I was comfortable cutting tenons off until I reached 2" left. I would not felt safe to cut one off with the blade sticking high above the stick I was cutting. There never will be a blade sticking much above anything I saw, especially when fingers are this close.

"You will also get a better quality cut." First, I don't agree and second it's the end of a tenon. A band saw cut would have been fine.

"It also looks like you could use a new zero clearance insert." This one used to be 20 years ago.

"Ad a backer board to your crosscut guide that spans across the blade. That way when you make your cut you can push both the held piece and the cut off past the blade where it cannot kick back." You and Derek think that kick back is the problem I am striving to avoid. It is not. Just as the featherweight tenon is released from the blade the tiny force applied to it will make it jump in some unpredictable direction. My pin thingy prevents the jump and then steers it away from the blade.

"It is difficult to tell from the photo, but it appears you are cutting 90 degrees to the grain and your tenons are wider than they are long" They are what they are because that is what I need. I understand the mechanics of a tenon. I have employed hundreds of them of one kind or another. But your point is well taken as observers may not anticipate how they will be used, to be revealed when I show case assembly. These tenons join drawer runners to drawer dividers/blades. I use one wide runner under double and triple drawers that are side by side, which calls for a wide tenon, and loose one too to aid assembly. Hence the custom tenons.

Terrorized by chop saws

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I bought a new Dewalt 12" saw when I trimmed the house. It came with a flimsy, as it turned out, 12" blade. I was cutting something and the blade established a vibration that went out of control . The guard, blade and some other parts were destroyed along with my comfort using a chop saw. DeWalt replaced all the destroyed parts. Later saws had better blades.

In the case at hand even a 10" blade is gong to hammer the light weight stick I am cutting. But I would use you jig for cutting inch pieces off a 1 x 1 x 20 " piece without hesitation.....if I had the jig.

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

roger lance

Bill.....you're not saying how long you want your tenons to be......I'm assuming that they are less than 2" in length......so for my final cut with this method, I'd be trimming that 2" piece to your length.....ie the desired tenon would now be on the left of the blade......and I'd use some type of stick to secure it keeping my hand safe.

There is also a little technique to use on a chop saw when cutting small parts that is very helpful to the goal of success.....and that is to position the work piece to the blade.....squeeze the trigger (run the saw).....release the trigger letting the blade run free......and then with a free running blade make the cut.....then stop the blade and raise it.....all safely.

Re: Terrorized by chop saws

roger lance

Chop saws....like just about everything else in a wood shop......must be respected (I'm afraid of those chain saws you are using to cut trees).

My chop saw goes way back.....it was made by Delta for guys framing a stick built building. A great saw for that purpose.....but, I've been using it in my shop for more refined work.....and it took a little taming.....including getting a good negative hook blade. Also, the fence of this saw has a wide opening and little parts were being thrown thru it or sucked up into the blade guard. Hence, the making of this jig for small parts.

Here's a pic of the bottom of the jig.....the two cleats fit snuggly on the saw body and keep the jig in place and the saw table can be moved without disturbing the jig.....

A simple jig.....but, very handy to have.....gets a lot of use.

Re: Cutting small pieces to length

roger lance

Easy jig to make. I used some 3/4" bb ply from the scrape bin. Make sure the base and fence pieces are square and straight. Cut a little relief slot on the bottom outside edge of the fence to allow saw dust a place to go so the work piece can sit tight to the fence. Glue the fence to the base.....trim after glue drying making sure fence is running true/parallel.

Find a simple way to attach your jig to your saw. Look to limit your saw's downward movement as I did with my dowel.....its positioned on my jig to hit the saw's body as it is being lowered in all three positions of cut. When using a saw to make repetitive cuts your mind can wonder and, without such a precaution, you could cut right thru the jig.....which I did on my first version.

Re: response

Lee Schierer in McKean, PA

With your blade set that low you are much more likely to get a kick back because the blade is pushing into the piece being cut and you have more teeth in the cut at any given time. Probably not a problem with your small pieces, but higher is better to a degree when dealing with circular blades and cutting.

I used to keep my blade height low as I was taught by my 9th grade shop teacher, but the physics of cutting disagree with that thought process. The lower the blade height the more likely the piece will attempt to climb up the blade. The gullets should be above the work being cut is the more common recommendation from blade manufacturers and it lessens the chance of injury.

Lee

Re: One of us doesn't understand.....

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

I cannot see how the device you illustrate can do anything to aid the operation I am illustrating? There is no clearance between blade and the two pieces of wood. Hence, no wedge can wedge them apart at the completion of the cut, which clearly occurs well in advance of the back of the blade.

Bill, if you are making multiples ... repetitive cutting ... then the small pieces are going to accumulate. Then the pieces push pieces further down the blade ... until they end up at the back of the blade. The guide I showed helps prevent this occurring. If you only plan to make a few dominos, or are happy to push each one aside (as if you were cutting them individually), then you do not need the guide.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: response

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

With your blade set that low you are much more likely to get a kick back because the blade is pushing into the piece being cut and you have more teeth in the cut at any given time.

Bill, Lee is essentially saying the same thing as I did earlier. The guide I showed prevents the cut pieces from reaching the back of the blade (where they will kick back). Lee is pointing out that a low blade reduces the length of the blade, which exposes the rear of the blade more quickly (than a high blade).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Terrorized by chop saws

Bruce Schoenleber

"My chop saw goes way back.....it was made by Delta for guys framing a stick built building. A great saw for that purpose...."

I owned that same saw for 30 years. Bearings finally gave out.

Radial arm saws went out of style when chop saws entered the scene. I don't get that as a ras is a far better tool for stick framing. Chop saws rock for trim work.

Re: Terrorized by chop saws

roger lance

Bruce.....could a person get bearings for that saw?......I bought a couple of extra drive belts for it which were suppose to be the weak link......as you know, the feet of that saw are designed to fit over 2x stock turned on edge so a carpenter could make a simple frame from 2x4s to support the saw off the ground on a couple of saw horses.....set-up a nice work station and rock house framing all day.

A RAS was great for cutting parts for making roof trusses on site.....get the basement framed in.....deck the first floor and lay-out jigs for the trusses right on that first floor deck.....nail and glue them all together with wood gussets and then stack the trusses on the ground to use when it was time for the roof.

I keep both my RAS and power miter box for my basement shop.....

See any influences from The New Yankee Workshop??.....

Now I understand

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

Since I began using 7 1/2 or 8" thin kerf blades years ago kickbacks became an issue I never worry about. I agree that your deflection device is a handy solution to the small parts accumulating problem, now that I understand how it works.

Band Saw

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

and a sled are what I use. Gives me a "0" clearance work surface and I can accurately cut pieces 1/4" to 18" long using either a stop block or graduations marked on the fence. I make all my domino tenons that way. Easy, accurate, and safe

Not exactly

Lee Schierer in McKean, PA

With his blade as low as he has it the blade is essentially trying to push the wood back toward the crosscut guide. Whereas if he raised the blade up more the blade would be pushing the wood more down against the table and not as much back toward the operator.

Lee