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marking gauge- knife style

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marking gauge- knife style

#1

marking gauge- knife style

Joseph Piotrowski

after using my LN panel gauge i really like them. it is my first knife edge style gauge, other than a wheel gauge. my other one are the pin type.

I'm looking to get a smaller knife edge marking gauge. i'd like some referrals for something like this:

http://www.hamiltontools.com/6-cherry-marking-gauge/

Japanese style also are good. i'd like to get a small manufacture, independent type guy is preferred. i like to support the craftsman when i can.

thanks,

Joe P.

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#2

Re: marking gauge- knife style

roger lance

Joseph.....I made a couple of knife type marking gauges using the replacement knife blade that LV sells for its Japanese gauge.....


I really like how these work.

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#3

Re: marking gauge- knife style

Joseph Piotrowski

very nice!

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#4

Re: marking gauge- knife style

William Duffield

Make one. If you are interested, I can provide instructions for this one, that I made back at the turn of the century.



Re: marking gauge- knife style

#5

Re: marking gauge- knife style

Joseph Piotrowski

making one could be fun but i have 3 projects under way another 4 or so in the wings. I won't get around to making on until 2020! lol

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#6

Question . . .

Yonak

Joseph, I've always wondered what is the advantage of this type of marking device as opposed to, say, a ruler, a try-square or a template. What's it especially good for ? What made you really appreciate it ? Also, why a knife instead of a pencil ?

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#7

Re: Question . . .

Joseph Piotrowski

I'm no expert in why one is better. i under the opinion that a knife works well with grain and a pin type works well with end grain.

pencil, marking knife, making gauges of both types all have a place.

in considering that i am taking some long narrow stock down to size. under 2 inches and want to hand plane them to parallel at 1-3/4 . a nice sharp line make it easy to work to a finished dimension. well easier said that done :). the knife line will leave a consistent thickness and parallel line. to get pencil line of equal results require a far greater effort. to those that can do it. bless you! i'm not that good.

as for pencils, i use them for all my rough dimensions or where i don't want a knife mark. it probably a bigger deal in hand tool work but a knife wall is a awesome thing and pencils jut don't make them :)

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#8

Re: Question . . .

TomD

"Joseph, I've always wondered what is the advantage of this type of marking device as opposed to, say, a ruler, a try-square or a template. What's it especially good for ? What made you really appreciate it ? Also, why a knife instead of a pencil ?"

It is particularly good for parallel lines to an edge. There are a lot of examples of that when breaking out stock, The other day I needed a piece about 1/4" wide, it was to match a piece that had broken, I needed to first saw it out from a larger piece, using the bandsaw. I could use the gauge to copy the dimension from the broken piece; go directly to the stock; mark the piece. There is zero place for error, and the measurements a dead nuts accurate.

There are a lot of projects using joinery where marking gauges are an essential part of layout, like marking the baseline of dovetails, where that line, even on high end work, is often part of the joint's final appearance. It will also set component dimensions, excess to be trimmed and final size of say a drawer, all off the one line. And the marking gauge can do that with minimal measurements, zero error, great speed, and transfer the exact same dimension to all the parts. Similar issues exist for mortise and tenons.

The gauge is never out reach, and there are situation, where one needs several gauges to make layouts that are applied in a sequence.

There are a lot of simple tricks one can use with gauges that allow work to proceed with speed and accuracy.

Knives will leave very readable lines in some woods. They generally do not get pulled off course by grain, but care is still required. I only rarely need to sharpen them. I can transfer dimensions from tapes of calipers with extreme accuracy, particularly with calipers, where I could not get the same accuracy from a pin or pencil. One doesn't need to clean up the pencil lines. Sometimes the knife can be used to cut the final part, as in making dividers for shoji screens. Some guitar braces. And very commonly on leather materials like belts.

It can be a benefit to have gauges set up with both the bevel out and in, but if one has only the one style, bevel in to the fence is better.

I have several of these things, right up to one from Bridge City ,y dad got me for graduation around 1980 that cost nearly 400 at the time. 99% of the time I use a Japanese marking gauge with a single wide knife, that really over protrudes, I set it to rip stock, which it was not designed to do, but I find the projection useful. It is just perfect. The fence is the perfect shape, it fits the hand, but more important there are many instances where the extra length is necessary; The make incredibly fine adjustment, when you set the screw lightly, you can scouch the beam better than on any other, to get dramatically accurate setting. And they take a measurement off calipers better than any other. They cost around 20, and they are so much better than every eye candy one I have ever used. I have some LV ones that are almost unusable bad, but they have their place. For instance you can pick up something like a mortise depth with them.

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#9

what he said and a question

Joseph Piotrowski

what is the Japanese one you have?

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#10

ruler, a try-square or a template

TomD

"as opposed to, say, a ruler, a try-square or a template."

Rulers make straight lines gauges make lines parallel to and edge, which can be straight or curved. For instance there are gauges that cut channels for guitar or violin perflings. The are fences on routers. etc... A ruler can make a line anywhere, but it generally less accurate, due to movement, size of line, difficulty of aligning the ruler, offset of marking device, and so on. So where you can use a gauge it is better.

Try squares when used in layout at usually for making right angles, rather than parallel lines. They have similar problems to rulers, and depend on the material one is marking for their accuracy. This is also true of gauges, so which to use would depend on the accuracy you think your six sides square object has, for instance, as a starting point. There are whole layout systems based on the square alone, timber framing as an example. There are a bunch of different systems for doing layout that have different applications, normally in cabinetmaking we use the generally worst which is to take measurements from the workpiece. But given that is the method, gauges are pretty much the most accurate starting point where practical.

Templates are normally not that accurate, but they do a good job of transferring complex intentions. I use them for leather products which are very curvy, things like holsters, and gloves, or patterns for stuff like stuffed animals. Guitars are probably my main woodworking use. Often they are just a starting point, unless one is using some approach like pattern routing. You might use a template to set out a shell carving, then the final form might actually come from the shape of your carving tools.

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#11

Re: Question . . .

William Duffield

Tom pretty much covered it, but didn't mention one specific use: When marking tenon shoulders that you are going to saw with a backsaw, the saw teeth drop right into the line cut by the gauge, and the shoulder can then be sawn very precisely.

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#12

Re: marking gauge- knife style

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

after using my LN panel gauge i really like them. it is my first knife edge style gauge, other than a wheel gauge. my other one are the pin type.

I'm looking to get a smaller knife edge marking gauge. i'd like some referrals for something like this:

http://www.hamiltontools.com/6-cherry-marking-gauge/

Japanese style also are good. i'd like to get a small manufacture, independent type guy is preferred. i like to support the craftsman when i can.

thanks,

Joe P.

Hi Joe

I have many cutting gauges, and prefer either Japanese or wheel gauges. They are excellent at scoring both with- and across the grain.

The Japanese are the more ergonomic, and the wheel gauges leave a finer line. I prefer the Japanese for the heavier blades and deeper lines, such as tenon shoulders, but the wheel gauges excel for finely detailed marked, such as dovetails.

These two have a feature in common, that other types of gauges (including the Hamilton) cannot emulate. It is possible to mark the exact width of a board (such as when dovetailing) by dropping the blade (rather than extending it) ...


The best Japanese gauges were made by Kinshiro (and Expensive!). These are no longer available. They are also double knife gauges designed for mortice and tenon joints, however one blade can be retracted and a single blade used. It is possible to get a cheap version, a Large Ryuma for $17 from Tools from Japan. I purchased a couple and modified them ...

The Large Ryuma ...


Modified to a single knife and opposite a Kinshiro ..



Used as per the wheel gauge ...


The wheel gauges from either Veritas (their latest version is second from the right) or Tite-Mark (far right) are excellent.


Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#13

Re: marking gauge- knife style

Joe Piotrowski

Thanks. I'll Check out tool from Japan. I agree on the wheel type usage. They are great for fine details.

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#14

Re: marking gauge- knife style

David Higgins

nice!

Re: marking gauge- knife style

#15

update

Joseph Piotrowski

I decided and purchased a marking gauge.although Derek's tweaks to the Japanese ones was inspiring , i ultimately went with :

http://www.hamiltontools.com/6-cherry-marking-gauge/

I couldn't be happier with the service or the product. Jeff is extremely friendly person to converse with and his end product is outstanding. well crafted, light weight and balanced well. i found it much easier then the other pin style gauge to use.

the knife reminds me of a larger knicker from a newer rabbet hand plane. it s rounded affair that sliced right through the grain. even the weird twisty grain that i am encountering. it set up real nice and i was able to get a nice clean line along a poorly sawed rail that involved one edge being less than 1/32 over sized to 1/8 on the other end. it made a nice sharp line in the tight end, not splintering the edge or tearing it out.

totally worth every penny and I would buy it again.

thanks,

Joe P

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