WC Weekend Accomplishments....

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

JL

Worked on a pedestal for a trestle table - two actually.

Re: WC Weekend Accomplishments....

John C Lucas

Finished a small.birdhouse for my wife. Yea not my idea.of fine woodworking but you do what you gotta do. Then mowed my 1 3/4 acre yard with the push mower. That was a pain. Took my rider to the mower shop and the owner had told them he was closi g at the end of the day dont take any more in. So i drove to the next town to go to my old repairman. He had a heart attack 2 days ago ad died. So i wet to a third one who was now booked solid taking in work from the other 2. Bummer. I did manage to.work a little on a hand mirror but that will be on hold for a day or so. Got friends and relatives in for the eclipse. My house is dead center.

Not an accomplishment ...

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

... but so nice

I received a nice rebate, and my wife said "spend it". In my defence I was being dutiful.

At the recent Perth Wood Show I spent some time examining the differences between the Sawstop Professional with 36" T-Glide and the slider attachment vs the Hammer K3 Winner with 48" slider.

I do not work with panels. I only work with hardwood. My old table saw was a contractor with a slider attachment, similar to the Sawstop type. I thoughts going in were that the K3 would be better for panels, while the Sawstop would be ideal for crosscutting, since this was my experience in the 20 years of my old saw. I came away understanding that my prior beliefs were naive.

I love the way one can rip with a panel saw. This is not only infinitely safer than ripping with a cabinet saw, but completely intuitive. Tapered saw cuts are simply as easy as a straight cut. Have a look at this video on the Fritz and Franz jig ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE

This is not likely to be news to those who already own these Euro machines, but it was an eye opener for me. The Sawstop is beautifully made. It took my breath away. However, it is a totally different concept to a panel saw. In the end I decided on the Hammer K3 Winner. The 48" (1250mm) long slider is about all I can manage in my small shop (half a double garage), but it should be plenty for the rips I need in the furniture I build.

I am also very fortunate to have accumulated a few nice machines since I began upgrading the equipment several years ago. The local Felder-Hammer agent has been superb is installing and setting up the thicknesser-planer, bandsaw and now the table saw ...

My heart still lies with hand tools, which do all the joinery, fine shaping and finish work.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: Not an accomplishment ...

Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana

Very nice equipment, I have never heard of anyone that purchased Hammer, Felder or Mini-max equipment regretting the decision other than choosing one over the other. The only European equipment i have is the Mini-Max MM-16 Band saw and I love it. Not dis-satisfied with any of my equipment, but probably have purchased more of the Mini-Max equipment if I had the financial resources.

Re: Not an accomplishment ...

John Foster

So this is how the 1% lives !

... but it does not do the work for you 

It's appropriate........

roger lance

he's in the upper 1% of all woodworkers.......

No Offence Intended

John Foster

Just joking with that 1% remark. To be honest, a few years ago, I splurged on a Felder FD-250 slot mortiser with the dowelling and square chisel attachments. I can't remotely justify it , but all of a sudden putting things together is enjoyable.

Re: Not an accomplishment ...

William Duffield

I'm not sure I understand what is going on in the video.It seems a lot of what is important is hidden from view by the blade guard/dust hood.

I also don't understand how ripping can be any more intuitive than setting the board up against the rip fence and pushing it through with a push stick.

I have used cabinet saws with a slider (both the DeWalt and the Jess-Em), but don't have one on my SawStop because I don't currently have room in my shop for it. I also have not used a euro panel saw, so I don't understand the difference between the operation of the slider on your Hammer and a slider on a cabinet saw. (I am aware that neither the DeWalt nor the Jess-Em is currently available from the manufacturers.)

For some of the operations he shows, I have built and use a cut-off sled (a.k.a. Dutchman) and a leg taper jig of the type Steve Latta uses. It appears that the F&F jig has the limitation that both ends of the board must be precut precisely perpendicular to the cut you want to make. I guess that's OK if you are only making Stickley style furniture, but we do a lot more than that.

Does your K3 have a left tilt or a right tilt blade? Can you set the rip fence on the other side of the blade, or does the slider interfere?

could you comment

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I have never seen a saw like what you bought but I have heard of them and what I here is that they are "safer" to operate. I gather stuff is pushed past the blade on a ball bearing sliding table, nearly frictionless and accurate no doubt? The long miter would make cross cutting more accurate. The stop on the miter would make repetitive cuts accurate. The tall fence has its advantages, though it is unclear if it is handy to screw axillary fences to it as I do often. Looks to be a quality machine, so I imagine everything about it is accurate. It appears to do all that I do on a table saw without the need of auxiliary devices that I require- various sleds, "enhanced miter", taper jig, etc. It's handiness would be, well, handy.

The ripping part remains unclear. You don't just push lumber through up against a fence like any other saw, an operation that seems to be straightforward on a US saw? I ride the fence between my index and middle finger locking my hand onto my low narrow Delta fence. I like the security of this technique, not possible with that tall fence, or the wide T-square fences now popular.

Will you describe how it might be safer to operate than say a vintage Delta or Powermatic cabinet saw.

Re: Not an accomplishment ...

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

Hi William

My comments must not be viewed as the voice of experience. I am a complete novice to panel saws. I have done a ton of research and spoken with others. I have watched countless videos. I have minimal hands-on time.

I also don't understand how ripping can be any more intuitive than setting the board up against the rip fence and pushing it through with a push stick.

This is difficult to describe. The video shows the technique. Essentially, the sides of F&F jig facing the blade are "no clearance", which means that anything lined up with these two points will be cut exactly to those points.

One can rip in the exact same manner as a cabinet saw - simply lock the slider and use the table saw fence. Or, the fence may be used as a depth stop for repeated rips using the slider (the fence can be shortened to remain well in front of the blade).

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PyFjtSHrE

...It appears that the F&F jig has the limitation that both ends of the board must be precut precisely perpendicular to the cut you want to make.

The F&F jig does not have to be perpendicular. There is no reason why one cannot make it also lock at an angle. That will hold irregular-shaped pieces. Here is a fancy-schmancy F&F jig cutting different parts ...

The link to this jig (at a crazy, eye-watering price) is: https://shop.ruwi.de/en/product/clamping-and-sawing-system-comfort/

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: could you comment

Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia)

The ripping part remains unclear. You don't just push lumber through up against a fence like any other saw, an operation that seems to be straightforward on a US saw? I ride the fence between my index and middle finger locking my hand onto my low narrow Delta fence. I like the security of this technique, not possible with that tall fence, or the wide T-square fences now popular.

Will you describe how it might be safer to operate than say a vintage Delta or Powermatic cabinet saw.

Hi Bill

As I mentioned in my reply to William, a panel saw (such as the Hammer K3) also has a traditional fence. It is styled on a Biesemeyer. This one I have g-l-i-d-e-s ... (sigh ... I am not used to this). And the K3 can be used in exactly the same way as you are used to doing ..... having noted this, the fence also flips over to a low profile fence, and may be run back-and-forth or a track to be longer or shorter - which is the same as the Delta-Rockwell, I believe.

Delta-Rockwell ...

Hammer ...

One negative (I have not worked this out yet) is that there is no place to connect a featherboard as the slider is on the left side of the blade, and the slider is 10" wide.

The way a contractor/cabinet saw will be used when ripping is to work against the fence. The panel saw can do this as well. However, the panel saw can also hold boards on the slider, and rip them that way - as I showed with the F&F jog in the previous post. A cabinet saw with a slider attachment cannot do this. The panel saw runs alongside the blade, while the slider attachment may run 12" or more from the blade. The latter are only for crosscutting.

The panel saw is safer as one doe not stand behind the blade. Instead one stands to the left of the blade with using the slider. Further, what the Sawstop does not address is kickback. This is likely to occur when ripping, when parts get jammed against the fence. Both the Delta and the Hammer/Felder fence can be shortened, and this helps prevent jamming.

See my previous post for more pictures of the F&F jig.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Re: could you comment

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I don't download video as it consumes too much of my limited download allotment.

My objection to the SawStop is that one gives up versatility to own one.

I am getting the impression that it may take a "year" to explore the versatility of your saw and take advantage of ways of using it that are different from a "cabinet saw".

Re: could you comment

William Duffield

Thanks for the discussions and illustrations. They are definitely clarifying.

I am beginning to understand some of the additional versatility in the Euro style slider, and the F&F jig. While I think most of its capabilities could be accomplished with a cross-cut sled (with some T-tracks) on a cabinet saw, the Euro saw slider and the F&F jig look like they are a much more convenient way to do it.

I used to have a saw with the Delta-Rockwel UniFence. I really liked it. With a Beisemeyer type fence, you have to build some jigs to accomplish what it does naturally, and using them is definitely not as convenient. One such attachment is the L-fence illustrated by Bob Van Dyke on a FWW video. Using the rip fence as a cross-cut stop block on the Beisemeyer requires clamping a short block of known width to the fence. I use one exactly 1" (25.4 mm) thick.

Maybe it's time to go talk to my friends at Felder (who own the Hammer brand) in New Castle. I expect to see them next month at the Hearne Hardwoods Open House. If they would add the SawStop technology to their saws, that would be almost ideal.

Re: could you comment

William Duffield

Regarding the feather boards, Isn't it possible to lock the slider and then bolt the feather boards to its T-slots? Of course, you don't need feather boards when using the F&F jigs instead of the rip fence. Another possibility is to use stock guides attached to the rip fence, for example these from JessEm:

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/jessem-clear-cut-precision-stock-guides-for-table-saws-jessem-04301

Re: could you comment

Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana

I use the Grr Ripper push block / hold down system for my ripping, I have never felt the need for feather boards when ripping.

Roger, you are such a marvellous liar. Thanks 

I live in America......

roger lance

the culture effects a fellow......

You are pretty good though.