I have a Whiteside dovetail router bit. 1/2" shank and it cuts a 3/4 circle at the large end. Carbide tipped. I have used it but not a lot. At a glance it appears to be in good shape. Used it to cut some cross grained slots in cherry. It smoked its way through.
So, it's dull??? The router was running full speed. Is it worth having it sharpened? Apparently I can get a new one for about $27. Should I just buy a replacement? Would a solid carbide one be better? Would another brand be better?
I touch up the face with a diamond stone first and try it. That's a big bit to take though cherry in a a single cut. Cherry burns easily, and there is no place for the chips to go in a dovetail cut. When I do a big cut like that, I use another router with a straight bit to remove the bulk of the waste, then follow with the dovetail bit.
I'm no fan of resharpened router bits. Certainly no local guy to do the right kind of job. If it takes $7 or $8 to round trip ship it, and the same amount to sharpen, I'd just buy the new bit.
I use router bits occasionally for work like cutting shoji tracks. I've found that wasting out the majority of the groove first is the way to go, I like an uncut spiral bit for heavy waste removal, they clear the chips well. Still best to work in steps.
Anything where the top edge is super critical I will use a downcut bit and take lighter passes.
Ditto the removal of the majority of the waste with a straight cutter before using the dovetail bit. The more waste you can remove beforehand the easier and safer will be the result with the dovetail.
There are dovetail bits....like the Porter-Cable 14 degree.....that have very small diameters at the top of the dovetail. Trying to force such bits through an unprepared cut as was done here would be very dangerous and could result in the bit breaking at 23,000 rpm.....you'd have more to worry about than some burning.
The question becomes....would you try to make a finished cut with other bits that are removing a lot of waste in a single pass....or would you use a series of progressive cuts to get to the final profile (think edge forming bits)???
I should have set up a second router and wasted some of the stock with a straight bit or better still an up cut bit. Sort of a Duh moment for me. I have done this before and knew better. I will do better next time.
Thanks for the help.
I did lap it a little with a diamond card, but maybe not as much as I should have.
Instead of the straight cutter, some passes through the table saw will also work well to remove a portion of the waste.
This discussion brings up another topic....pacing.
Power tool guys (of which I am one) sometimes rely more heavily on their power tools to do a large amount of work in a small amount of time. Hand tool guys are different here....slower pace.
I find that my less-than-perfect temperament can get me into trouble when pushing things and something goes wrong. God catches some unseemly language.....and neighbors hear things that they might not have heard before.
I've been working on the hand tool side....to become a truly blended woodworker.....and I've been watching a lot of videos on hand tool use and have come to appreciate the working pace/style of people like Tom Fidgen.
I'll never give up my table saw.....but I've found that if I slow down and take my time.....I increase my accuracy.....decrease my mistakes.....and find a working grove in which I'm able to make acceptable progress on the work.
Its a good goal.....I'd like to be in that grove more often.
I made a jig that allows me to cut dovetails in both front and back posts for a chest of drawers all at once. Six Dovetails in each of four posts. I should have set up another router. This thing looks like a ladder or a tree. Would be tough to run it over the TS, but another router would help. Shop time has been more limited than I expected so I tried to bulldoze my way through.
I am making a pair of chests of drawers for my grand daughters, so I have used it twice. I plan on making two more if these turn out well (for my sons). I will try wasting some of the stock and see if the bit works better.
Using both effectively you'll eventually find that it is significantly faster than attempting to use only machinery when working with the typical level of machinery utilized in one man shops unless you budget significantly for machinery.
For instance: it is my opinion that for shops that do not have a super surfacer, the most effective available process after jointing and planing is hand planing. Even if one prefers the finish of an ROS on items like large slabs with burled sections it remains the case that processing by hand is significantly faster and more cost effective (fewer consumables) when the planing is performed by an experienced hand.
There are many times when my process is to work material right off the bandsaw (I don't own a thickness planer). On thin width items I'm going from bandsawed face to finished without tearout in 3-4 plane strokes.
A super surfacer is a power fed single blade planing machine. The blade is stationary and the wood travels over it. It can put a planed finish on wood where a round head planer for thicknessing cannot.
If you have a jointer and thickness planer I would start with a #4 plane either a good vintage one or a new LN. After you put some hours on that and can finish plane full panels with success and confidence then I might pick up a jointer plane then move into specialty planes and/or Japanese planes.
There is a learning curve but I feel it is very much worth the result. I never sand in my normal work and ocassionally sand highly burled work for an even finish.
I waited until Brian answered as I wanted to address your question from the perspective of a power tool guy who has been adding hand tools to his regime as opposed to what Brian, who is very advanced with hand tools, might say.
Before we get to the planes, I'd recommend that a new hand tool worker have a good, stout, sturdy workbench with vises that are capable of holding the work firmly. I've recently watched a video of a guy explaining cutting dovetails and he stuck his western dovetail saw on the work trying to start his cut.....he was literally shaking his bench. Such a bench is not good for hand tool work.....especially heavy planing.....it will lead to frustration and some of that bad language I mentioned above.
If you are a typical power tool wood worker, You'll have a table saw, jointer, and planar. So I'd recommend developing a skill that you will want to have.....which is to flatten on side of a board to the point where it is stable and will not rock and can be run through your planar with lite passes to flatten the other surface of your board before turning it over to flatten that first roughly worked side. For this, I'd recommend a scrub plane and a Stanley #5.
There are many videos on this process. There are also numerous videos on fettling a plane and setting it up to work properly. Some will recommend that you just get two blades for that #5 and camber one for scrub work and the other with its edges set back for smoothing. You'll also need to learn how to sharpen and get a system in place that will allow you to conveniently hone your blades.
Just keep it simple at first.....a #5....maybe a block plane.....
I have a Stanley Plane, but have never made friends with it. I have several block planes. How do I identify a No. 5? I don't have a decent bench and don't have room for one. Need to figure that out. Have looked at a number of benches. Why don't they include angle braces on the legs?
How do you sharpen? I have glued a number of progressively finer sheets of sandpaper to a glass sheet.
You can use a planing beam on saw horses rather than a fixed workbench. Two heavy timber framers saw horses and a 4x12 or 6x12 to plane on, 8' or 10' or whatever you feel you need for length. Take it apart and move it out of the way when you don't need it.
Sharpening can be easy if you let it. Research some of David Weavers stuff on sharpening he has excellent and fast methods.
There are no short cuts here to your learning/understanding about benches, planes, sharpening, etc etc.
I'd suggest YouTube videos.....there are all kinds of info there on these subjects.....some good.....some not.
Look for videos by Paul Sellers.....an Englishman with 40 years of ww experience.....he has some good info for beginners on setting up a hand plane, sharpening, basic bench building, etc.
You are not in a race here.....take your time.....learn.....and keep it simple to start.....its easy to get sweep up and then you've bought a bunch of stuff that you don't know how to use or if you really need it.
Just know that to begin you'll get one plane (which you already have).....know also that almost all hand tools are not ready for use even if bought new.....they require some work.....some adjustment.....some refinement. Without this work on the tool, the tool will probably not work well....and you will be frustrated with the tool and with your results.
Sharpening is key. There are many, many ways to sharpen. Sand paper on glass is know as the "scary sharp" method.....and is a valid way to sharpen especially in the beginning. Just remember, you want to keep things simple.....there will be many sharpening methods advocated to you.....but your goal now is to get a simple system going that gives you acceptable results and after you have gained some experience/success/understanding in sharpening blades/chisels etc.....then, you can move on if you want.
While both of your hands are holding/guiding your hand tool.....something has to be holding your work piece.....this is where a bench comes in. You do not have to build some super duper exotic bench.....but, you do want some very important qualities in your bench.....mass, weight, vises, rigidity, stability. There is a book you should read....Scott Landis' The Workbench Book.....probably get it from the library.....its a great book.....whats important in that book is all the different kinds of good work benches there are.....and different kinds of wood workers need different kinds of benches.....and there are some very inventive benches in that book.....some built like show pieces.....some built from scrap.....but all very effective.....all helping their owners to do good work.
The Paul Sellers videos are a good place to start....sharpening with sand paper.....taking an old Record/Stanley flea market plane and fixing it to give excellent service.
Just a little story to end this.....I was in the local WoodCraft recently.....the store was very busy.....lots of customers.....the store had a small bench set up with a quick action metal vise, a Wood River plane, and a large piece of wood for planing.
I watched customer after customer come to that bench, grab the plane, and try to plane that board.....no one checked the grain of the board.....no one checked how far out the blade was set. People were getting very frustrated with the plane and their results.....they were planing against the grain with a blade that needed to be retracted. These were wood workers.....power tool guys.....they were just not aware of the difference it would make if they just looked at that board.....studied the grain pattern....turned the board around in the vise.....then retracted that blade.....and they'd have gotten a thin, wispy shaving.....and a whole different experience.
I always struggled sharpening plane blades and chisels, until I learned how to grind. Nearly every old plane, chisel, and a high percent of new versions, have very poor grinding. They do not have two flat surfaces, intersecting at the proper angle. Surfaces are rolled over on abrasive belts, or have been abused by someone earlier in it's life. Then it makes proper honing an impossibility. If you grind a flat plane, on a flat surface, the honing becomes very easy. Just a few strokes on some different grit water stones, and you can shave. I use a Veritas grinding jig, along the upturned edge of the Wolverine sharpening platform. With skilled grinding, it takes about 3 minutes to hone and make curls.
The checks in the oak look like "honeycomb" a result of drying it too quickly. It is a drying defect that should get a no push back refund from a reputable supplier.
That explains it.....the fire place dried it.....too fast. Nice oak color though
Someone brought me a clear piece of walnut about 6" thick by 12" wide. It was to be a mantel. They were finishing up the house and wanted me to plane it so they could have the carpenters install it. I pleaded with them to not install it until it had dried slowly in some environment besides over a fire.
Some years later I ran into the owner. They installed it. Built a fire in fireplace and the mantle split is numerous places in unattractive way. They replaced it.
Our 6 x 10" mantle was carefully dried. There is crotch wood at one end and the saw perfectly split a walnut seed that had lodged in the crotch and grown over.
It's really a shame when people ruin such beautiful pieces of wood, especially when experienced advice is given.
This mantle became a rescue mission to some degree. The thing had been quickly processed through a sanding machine and then poly'd to a horrific result. I passed over it for so many years because I thought so little of it, but I needed a planing beam for long kumiko earlier this year and decided it was time to put it to use.
Once the poly and sanding grit and rough saw marks were gone it became a nice piece to plane and actually surprised me with how wonderful a color was under the plastic.
The original owner of the mantle reads my blog, so I am waiting to receive an email from him asking for his mantle back.
If you would, post a photo of your mantle, It sounds like a beautiful piece of walnut and 6" x 10"!
This has been a wonderful thread...best of Wood Central.
It wandered around a bit, but has provided me with a lot of information and encouragement. Good eye Bill, spotting that oak. I'd like to see your mantle too. I think we have discussed my plane before. I sharpened it, but life got in the way and I put it back in the drawer. I have had it since I bought it when I was about 16. Over 50 years. Time to make friends.
Barry.....these are the usual cast of characters that comprise a standard set/kit of hand planes: a block plane, a #4 smoother, a #5 jack, and a #7 jointer....
Usually, there is an identification number in the casting like this #5.....
