Where Have All the Good Old Boys Gone

Re: Where Have All the Good Old Boys Gone

Jerry Nicholson

I would rather see a suit over the lumber quality in those places! Like every 2 x 4 in the stack having the pith running right down the center. And they advertise "center cut" as though it was some kind of virtue. Anyone that doesn't know that 4x4 isn't the actual dimension is probably too clueless to use the stuff anyway.

Jerry

Absurd...

John in NM

I have to agree with Jerry - no one who knows anything about the lumber business expects a 4 x 4 to be 4 x 4.... one would only have to point out to an intelligent judge or jury (assuming one could find either) that companies like Simpson Strongtie size their products to the trade sizes of wood in use to demonstrate that the consumer has no reasonable expectation of getting a 4" x 4" piece of wood.

This is just unscrupulous people trying to make a buck on the back of industry, and if you buy construction lumber you are paying for the costs of idiot lawsuits like this one.

Explanations

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

of the difference between rough-cut and finished lumber should suffice. 2x4 may start out that way but drying and milling will take close to that 1/2" The 2x I get is 1-9/16. PT is a shade more. The industry assigned the names a century (or more) ago.

"Center Cut" is always worth a chuckle when I see it. I learned long ago to "leave the pith in the rack".

Re: Explanations

John K Jordan

>>>"Center Cut" is always worth a chuckle when I see it. I learned long ago to "leave the pith in the rack".

That's getting harder to do. Based on my observations at the big box store they must be cutting 2x4s from 6" diameter trees these days.

JKJ

Re: Explanations

Barry Irby

I've seen entire bundles of 2 x 4's at Lowe's and Home Depot that appear to have been 6" trees cut to 4 x 4's and then resawed into 2x4's Next they will be telling us the are bookmatched.

This is interesting. Is the retailer's responsibility to educate the customer? If you have enough knowledge to KNOW you need an actual 4" by 4" piece of lumber shouldn't you be responsible for checking the actual size?

Should the grocery store teach you how to cook?

The Nanny State?

Pipe and tubing...more or less...wire size???

Tom dunlap

So...in go buy tubing or pipe. Some are dimensioned like they're named but then again they might be some obscure dimensional scale

Wire size??? I should get more wire if the number is bigger...right?!?!?

I feel ripped off

Sheesh!

Exactly...

John in NM

Explanations work fine - I learned all this years ago from my dad... today there is also google if one wants an explanation.

Should the retailer be required to provide the explanation? I say no, but it would be wise of them to do so regardless. The distinction between requirement and good idea is an important one.

Ironically, I would prefer the plywood to be rounded up. If I stop and think for a minute, 23/32 is pretty close to 3/4 so I figure it out. But clunky fractions like that tend to cause me to skip over them - kind of like words one can't pronounce they skip even when reading silently.... To me its easier to call it 3/4 on the sign and know that it's a bit less.

Read Carefully

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

it's a "set piece" looking for a few scheckels figuring the big boys will settle out quickly not wanting to risk getting in front of a jury. Might be figuring wrong as stores and mills can change their labeling to list the actual dimensions instead of giving more opportunity for repeat performances.

Tomorrow a sign goes up in the lumber department (and yards) to the effect of "Dimensional lumber labels do not reflect the actual width or thickness of the items, but are standard terms used to designate lumber of milled dimensions."

Re: Exactly...

Barry Irby

Where the plywood thing is really hateful is patching underlayment under a damaged floor. A very slight decrease in thickness will make a mess out of a vinyl flooring job.

Studs used to be 3 5/8" and now they are 3 1/2". Same thing for joists. Can be a pain, but I'm not sure its Home Depot's fault or responsibility.

OTOH Mark is right.

More signs coming. More labels. I like the labels written in three languages that don't say enough in any of them to be helpful.

Ah, Yup

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

look who's ahead of the curve:

https://www.lowes.com/pl/Dimensional-lumber-Lumber-composites-Building-supplies/4294402500?refinement=4294402197

Three languages...

John in NM

Even those labels are better than arcane pictograms. I once sat in a rental forklift for 5 minutes trying to figure out how a couple of the little pictures conveyed what I already knew the knob or button to do.

I don't mind retailers providing explanatory labeling at all - in fact I think it's a pretty smart thing for them to do. I mind $5 million lawsuits compelling them to do so. The customers - you and I - pay for those, win lose or settle.

I did...

John in NM

you'll see that from my previous replies.

And I will say, one more time, the sign doesn't bother me - the unscrupulous jerks who get the settlement that forces the sign is what bothers me. Go earn an honest living I say.

Re: Three languages...

Barry Irby

My shop vac and probably many other newer tools have symbols on the switch. A O and I or something similar. I know OFF and ON are out of fashion and "difficult" for non English speakers. So they went to symbols that are meaningless to all of us. Is O for Off and the I for Ignite? Wait, I think that's wrong, but I would have to go look. Sheesh.

what bothers me is

Bruce, a MN Galoot

That I recall in my distant memory, maybe 60 years ago, that a 2X4 used to be 1-5/8" X3-5/8". It seems that the time for filing a lawsuit on a long-settled industry practice was 60 years ago.

Counter sue?

Gary Smyth

I wonder if the people who sued offered to give back the money they got for the extra nails they received “free” for not actually paying two, four, six, eight, ten or twelve, et.al) cents per nail in a package. After all they are identified as penny nails.

Re: Counter sue?

Mark Nowicki

I bought three sheets of 4'x8' melamine this afternoon, actual size is 49" x 97".

I hope Home Depot doesn't look at my past purchases and sue me for the difference.

Re: Three languages...

Jason Roehl in Lafayette, IN

O means a closed circuit, so it's ON, right?

(I totally hate those particular symbols.)

Jason

Its the other way, as far as I can remember

John in NM

The circle is off and the line is on. I believe it is completely arbitrary.

I remember it by the circle being like a zero, and there is no electron flow.... but I think the arbitrariness was by intent, making everyone equally confused. I've yet to understand the logic of that.

Honestly, I rarely think about it. Flip the switch and the thing comes on or not. I rarely even think about those silly symbols since there is pretty much instant feedback.

Re: Its All Ones and Zeros

William Duffield

There are 10 kinds of people in this world: Those who understand binary and those who don't.

01101110  01101111  01110100

There's no disputing that logic

John in NM

I did work with an engineer once who insisted the on-off symbols were not intended to be 0 and 1, his point being that basing it on binary logic was just as bad as basing it on language. Since none of that made sense to me in the first place, I took it with a grain of salt.

But looking at Wikipedia just now, it says the same (my former coworker probably wrote that part ). Without an IEC expert, we may never know!

Make Up Your Mind, Gary

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

"On" or "Off" but stop playing with the damn switch

Sheesh

Re: 01011111

William Duffield

If you said it in EBCDIC it would have only required one byte.

Sign too long

Bill Howatt

You just need to do what the internet service providers do when mentioning their speeds, just put an "Up to" in front of the size designation.

Bill