Carpenters Square recommendation

Re: Low end  vs high end

Rick L

http://chappellsquare.com

High end

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=32587&cat=1,42936,42944&ap=1

The Shinwa is highly regarded.

The Stanley is on the low end.

One thing about framing squares are the tables for rafters and other carpentry functions. You realize you can adjust framing squares with a pin punch. What do want to do with it? Measuring diagonals with a tape measure is more accurate than a square.

Re: Carpenters Square recommendation

JL

I have the Lee Valley Square.

It is excellent.

I have a Stanley - it never gets used.

Re: Carpenters Square recommendation

Barry Irby

I have a Stanley stainless steel framing square I have had for over 30 years. It was my understanding they have stopped making stainless steel squares. This thread is the first disparaging remarks I have heard about Stanley squares. I have spent hundreds of hours framing buildings with that square. (I have heard that if you can layout rafters, frame a roof and layout and build stairs, you are a carpenter. If you can't, not so much. I can, or at least could, when I was building.)

My only complaint with the square was that it was so bright it was very hard to see the divisions. I painted it and rubbed the paint off to leave it in the grooves, solving that problem.

A steel square, basically an "L", to me is an amazingly sophisticated tool in the hands of someone that understands the possibilities. I never learned more than about ten percent of its uses. Get a good one and some of the books that go with it if you plan to use it for all its worth.

Physically, The short blade should be 16" x 1 1/2" and the longer blades should be 24" by 2" and they should be tapered so they are thinner at the tips. The tapering REALLY affects the weight and balance of the square and if you use it more than a minute or two you will notice. Steel or stainless steel is a better choice than aluminum. Aluminum feels good right out of the box, but I can not recall seeing one that was tapered and even though it was lighter, the balance was still important. Also, every aluminum one I ever saw that had a little age on it was beaten to crap. Steel took the abuse better.

I may have to get one of the expensive ones just to see if I like it better than my old one. Hmmm, I have a birthday coming. Wonder if the cabinet squares are tapered?

Better than average

Randy Stukenberg

I'm basically looking for one that will reliably stay square. I need one for squaring up saw guides when cutting plywood panels and for checking squareness of panel corners. I don't really need all the tables. I have adjusted the one I have several times and would like to find one I could grab off the rack and feel confident that it is square and doesn't need to be checked every time. Also not caked with lacquer finish that flakes off.

Re: Better than average

Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana

Randy, I don't know if what you are asking for is possible. I have several squares, ranging from standard carpenter squares to a very high precision (certified) machinist square. I keep the precision square stored in a chest and use it to check / calibrate my other small squares. I have a sliding Starrett square with all the attachments, a couple of other sliding squares, working machinist square, Lee valley aluminum square (working square) and others.

The problem is that when in use, most carpenter squares are handled fairly roughly ~ not due to negligence but just a factor in the type of work they are used. Obviously you have the same factors in play as you have had to recalibrate yours.

I don't use mine for high precision work, normally I will check square with a tape measure ~ corner to corner. However it does not take me long to "calibrate" a carpenter square. My Unisaw has a ground front edge so I can scratch or mark my table and check the square by "flipping" it 180 deg. I can have it < .005" or so in 18"' within a few minutes using a punch and ball peen hammer.

I have a couple of Stanley's, probably 50 to 75 years old I have had to polish to read the graduations,I did stone the edges to remove all burrs and nicks. I have checked the measurement graduations and find them to be pretty accurate, (more than sufficient for the type of work I use them for). I doubt any "Carpenter" square will stay in calibration forever, possibly if one were made using hardened spring steel, but I have never seen one on the market.

Re: Better than average

Bill Howatt

When you grab one off the rack do the "flip test" as described so you get one that is square or at least darn close.

I'd go for steel and then don't drop it or throw drills on top of it! Careful handling is probably the most important bit of advice if you want it to remain square.

Here are the LV ones, I think they are both stainless:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=69569&cat=1,42936

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32587&cat=1,42936,42944

Bill

Re: Better than average

Randy Stukenberg

I usually do the flip test, but would like to be able to just grab the square and check a corner quickly (with confidence). I also find that quite often the low quality plywood available these days doesn't always have a straight edge on it. My square generally hangs on a rack until I use it, so it doesn't get much abuse. However, the laq finish is peeling off (it's a cheap one) and I like to use good tools, they generally seem to make life easier.

get a triangle

Lars Parrington

if retaining squareness is top priority, try a triangle. something like a 12" speed square or an 18" or 24" plastic drafter's triangle. You could also make one out of 3 pieces of wood, if you optimize for wood movement.

The hypotenuse of the triangle keeps the other two legs square.

Re: I have the LV ss

Re: Better than average

TomD

I don't drag mine around the jobsite. In fact, I see really no reason to use one in framing at all. I use speed squares and stud layout thingies, and all that jazz. Most complex roofs around here are done with trusses, though I stick frame the very few I have made.

The LV stays on my measuring tool rack in the shop. In that situation I can't see any reason why it would shift. I use it for the stuff you mention, and the occasional staircase. I also have a very carefully selected drywall square, and it was fine when I last tested it. No question it was a 1 out of 10 square at the HD, they were mostly off a lot. I use it more than I use the LV.

As counter intuitive as it sounds, there is a good chance a wooden square would work as well or better for what you are actually describing. I have one back to the 80s, and it never moves. A couple of times a year it hits the floor, and it is still the same. It is light in weight so doesn't hit hard, and a corner might get dinged, but it doesn't cause the beam to deflect. If it wasn't A quick hit with the plane and it works again.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/free-plan-english-layout-square

I know it sounds whacky, but a guitar has to remain within thous under great string tension for years, comparatively a square is easy.

Re: get a triangle

Jim O'Connor

I made a 3x4x5 (feet that is) out of 1 x1 1/2 oak for squaring up framing. It was light and the length allowed accurate readings. My Stanley steel square is over 80 yrs old and like others I had to paint to see the graduations, also tapered. It hangs on a rack and hasn't been abused and is accurate for the things a carpenter square is used for.