OT Electrical Outlet Grounding Question

Re: OT Electrical Outlet Grounding Question

Garrett in Victoria BC

>Hi

First, the local code governs everything, and, in my experience, the folks who interpret it can be helpful and flexible. Or not. Much depends on how they are approached. Best not to be too fixed on a particular solution, and remain open to suggestions from them.

"Could I simply run a single solid conductor from the panel and connect to the ground connection on the outlet?" This would be effective and safe, but can't tell you if it would meet code.

"If I were to do two rooms, each with its own circuit breaker, would I have to run two separate conductors back to the CB panel or could I tie them together at the rooms and just run a single conductor back to the panel?" Probably not. Where would the two breakers be located? In the main panel, surely. Assuming these circuits are for 110vac outlets and lights, you could almost certainly daisy chain what you need off a single 15 amp circuit from its own breaker on the main panel. If the main panel is full - and if you will not exceed the total rated amperage - you could substitute half size breakers for full size. Again, local code governs.

Cheers, Garrett

Its all up to the local AHJ...

John in New Mexico

>Hi Jim,

"Could I simply run a single solid conductor from the panel and connect to the ground connection on the outlet?" Electrically, yes. Legally, who knows. Codes can be a bit funny about how the grounding conductor is run, sometimes requiring it to be "protected" the same as the current conductor and neutral. Your local inspector might argue that it has to be in the plastic outer sheath of the romex. Then again he might not. Depends on application, inspector, mood, indegestion, whatever.

"If I were to do two rooms, each with their own circuit breaker, would I have to run two separate conductors back to the CB panel or could I tie them together at the rooms and just run a single conductor back to the panel? " Are you still talking about grounding conductors? If so, it would also work electrically, but I would expect you to get dinged by the inspector. In general there is a grounding conductor for each circuit, though in some cases (like 3+ground wire) two hots will share a common and a ground. Personally, I like to avoid wiring methods that are not what the inspector commonly sees.

My local inspector has been very helpful in answering questions that will hopefully make the process go more smoothly, so I'd encourage you to contact your building department and ask them everything you can think of before you start work (and during for that matter). There are often local code variations as well, and you can save yourself having to re-do work if you know what they are in advance. In my area, this is especially true of grounding methods, maybe not in yours.

This is also all assuming you're going to permit the remodeling.

Good luck with the project,

John

(Not a liscenced electrician)

Re: OT Electrical Outlet Grounding Question

Barry Irby

>I'm a private Home Inspector in VA.

Locally we are using the International Residential Code (IRC)as the basis for our building Code. It in tern reffers to the National Electric Code (NEC). I don't know what you use in TX. but would not be surprised if it were not similar. Always defer to the Local Buildign Official. Call them and Ask. Might be best not to give them your name and address, just fish for information without starting some sort of case file.

Locally, you can not run an independant conductor for a ground. The wires have to be sheathed in the same cable. So to get grounded outlets you have to run new three conductor cables.

There is an exception. You can install three prong outlets in a two wire circuit, IF, it GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interupter) protected and the outlets are labeled. So, you could install a GFCI breaker in the panel and then wire the outlets with the hot and neutral and put a label on each outlets that explains it is not actually grounded. I am not sure you can buy the lables. I persoanlly don't like this option as it appears to be a work around and does not actually does not provide grounding. I ahve been told that some devices use the gorund to "silence" line noise and let comptures run faster and high end audio equipment produce silent passages without hiss. Don't actually know, but it might be true. I see the GFCI thing as a bandaid and something that would have to be explained at resale time.

Re: OT Electrical Outlet Grounding Question

NickB

>Definitely call your local building department. Physically and electrically, you can definitely just add a grounding conductor and run it back to your panel. You can use the same wire for multiple circuits, as long as the wire is sized to the largest (in amps) circuit that is involved. The issue is whether that will comply with code (if I had to bet, you've got a knob and tube wiring system, and there may be code work arounds for this sort of thing, but I don't actually know).

I haven't had any need to do so since we moved to MA, but back in CA, the building department was pretty good about answering these sorts of questions-tell them you're trying to plan the project and want to make sure you're going in the right direction, but don't tell them name/address.

Hope this helps,

Nick

Re: OT Electrical Outlet Grounding Question

Rick in Colgate, Wi

>My former house was built in the 1940's and was wired with BX and steel outlet boxes which served as a ground to the main service panel. When I upgraded from the 2 prong outlets to the modern 3 prong types I connected a ground wire from the outlet to the metal box.

Now I have no idea if that was a big no-no or not, but I figured it was better than no ground at all.

Rick

Ground Sharing

Rick Christopherson

>No, you cannot share the ground wire on two separate circuits. Unlike a multi-wire branch circuit that is using adjacent phases, there is no guarantee that two separate ciruits do not share the same phase, and if they do, then the ground wire could potentially carry 40 amps (or 30 amps) and would have to be rated as such.

Re: OT Electrical Outlet Grounding Question

ScottS

>I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the GFCI idea. I replaced most of the receptacles in my house with GFCI outlets. Any modern GFCI should come with the necessary labels. Truth be told, I can't tell the difference between the GFCI, the old non-grounded receptacles, and the few outlets in the house that have a proper ground. FWIW, my computer continues to run fine and my $1000 home-theater audio setup sounds fine, too!

Yes, No, Maybe & More�.

Jim Rahbe, Bedford, TX

>Thanks guys..

Although your specific answers were all over the place your recommendation that I contact the local building inspector makes the most sense. I just sent them an e-mail and we will see what they say..

Thanks again,

Jim R.