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OT - Decaffeinated coffee

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OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#1

OT - Decaffeinated coffee

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Went to the grocery store this morning, and picked up some decaf for my wife. Looking at the various brands I happened to stumble upon a piece of interesting (at least to me) information.

One brand used the "ethyl acetate" process to decaffeinate their coffee. I'm not an anti-chemical freak, but the fewer chemicals in the body the better in my view...

Then I looked at Starbucks' decaf... Starbucks uses the "methylene chloride" process!!!! What??? They're using a product whose other use is for stripping paint, and is a suspected (maybe confirmed now, haven't checked) carcinogen? Man... I wonder how much residual MC is left in the coffee...

I ended up buying some Tim Horton's decaf. They use the Swiss Water process, not sure exactly what that entails, but it sure sounds more appealing than methylene chloride...

Just a heads up...

DC

Who likes his coffee the Far West way

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#2

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

Ken Oakley-Sunny St. Cloud, Fla.

>Just reenforces my comment to my doctor when he tells me to give up regular roasted Folgers coffee for Decaf. I tell him I'd rather drink Panther Pee,(urine or other name).

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#3

I'm no chemist either, and like my caffeine... *LINK*

John in New Mexico

>Here's the first hit googling "methylene chloride decaffeination". I agree it does sound bad, but lots of things do.

How bout propylene glycol in your food coloring?


http://www.sweetmarias.com/health.eco.html

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#4

How did you think they got it out?

bill tindal, E.TN

>Caffeine is removed by solvent extraction from whatever it is in, eg beans. To be effective the solvent must be a good solvent for caffeine and to rid the bean of residual solvent it is best if the solvent has a low boiling point. The best solvent for extraction is methylene chloride. It boils just above room temperature so it is easy to rid it from the bean in the down stream processing. It just evaporates away. It is easy to measure when the level is reduced to a safe level in the bean. Ethyl acetate, the solvent that used to be in Duco cement, is a good solvent but it is harder to get rid of it because it boils at a higher temperature. (I don't know if the ground bean is extracted or the coffee extract. But whatever, the extraction principal is the same) The only thing to worry about is whether the safe residual level has been reliably determined.

Decaf coffee and similar products still contain a fair amount of caffeine that does not get extracted.

Another way that I thought was used in some bands is to extract with "liquid" carbon dioxide, ie carbon dioxide under pressure. This process will be advertised in some way to indicate that carbon dioxide is used, but I can't remember the wording.

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#5

The real stuff

John Pappas

>I prefer real coffee, real sugar, real butter, and real ice cream....just have to be sensible about how much I eat.

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#6

Funny, no one asked...

Denis Ch�nard, Orl�ans, Ont.

>Coffee the Far West Way:

- Take one pound of coffee

- Cover with water

- Boil for an hour

- Throw a horseshoe in

- If the horseshoe doesn't float, add more coffee

:-)

DC

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#7

Re: Funny, no one asked...

Jim Toews

>Hey! That's the coffee I had growing up! My folks used to have a pot on the back burner all day. By bed time I bet a horseshoe would have floated in it, but only if you removed the horse first. If you didn't, the PETA people would probably have gotten involved...

Cheers!

Jim

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#8

Re: Funny, no one asked...

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

>Sounds like coffee I've had in Mexico. That's what they said it was...

Joe

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#9

They use....

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>The "Swiss Water" method = swis-ethylene-methlychroride-acetate ;)

Happy Woodworking!

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#10

Decaffeinated coffee + caffeinated donut *LINK*

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>While you're enjoying your cancer causing decaffeinated coffee, you might want to have some caffeinated donuts with it ;)

Happy Woodworking!


Caffeinated Donuts

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#11

now that's coffee!

Joe Piotrowski - Chicago Burb's

>

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#12

Re: How did you think they got it out?

James Dillon in MD

>Bill,

The extraction process with liquid carbon dioxide is called supercritical fluid extraction (SCFE). Years ago, I used it to carry out analytical extractions of plastic additives. I don't know what is on the coffee package to indicate the use of that process, but I sure would pick it instead of methylene chloride or ethyl acetate extraction. Then again, I sure do miss the smell of ethyl acetate straight from the gallon jug 8-). Probably explains a lot of my memory retention difficulties 8-) 8-).

Jim

Re: OT - Decaffeinated coffee

#13

Some hard facts

Michael Dresdner

>Addy Protocol: Because of a caffeine problem some years ago, I did a good bit of research into decaffeination. Because my field is coatings, including paint removers, I have also heavily researched DCM (Methylene chloride is the common name for di-chloro methane, or DCM).

Most decaf contains only one fortieth of the caffeine, or just over two percent, not, as someone said, 'much of the caffeine remains.'

I would not hesitate to drink coffee decaffeinated with DCM. For one thing, it tastes better. Water process robs the coffee of some taste. As was pointed out, DCM is an excellent solvent for caffeine, but does not touch many of the other flavor bearing elements that are water soluble.

Again as someone else pointed out, DCM evaporates at room temperature, boils off well below 200 F, and is completely obliterated during roasting, which takes place AFTER decaffeination at temperatures well above that.

There is also the matter of DCM itself being labeled as a carcinogen. In fact, it has been labeled, I believe incorrectly, as a suspected carcinogen. Suspected is a very different thing than actual.

In extensive tests it has been shown to be not a carcinogen at all. In one notable ten year tracking at a plant that exposed its workers to much higher levels than we get, the cancer level in the work force was actually lower than the control group, the unexposed public at large. In addition, I have never been able to find even a single case of cancer definitively linked to DCM, the main reason it is still only a suspected one.

I would guess that the primary reason it is 'suspected' is that its structure is rather similar to a different known carcinogen, carbon tetra chloride. However, as we all know, small differences can yield big results.

As for the ozone issue, DCM was de-listed as a VOC several years ago after it was proved that it is not an ozone generator, the primary qualification for a VOC.

The bottom line is that coffee decaffeinated with DCM is about as safe as regular coffee. Whether you feel coffee is safe to drink is up to you. Personally, I love the stuff, but then I live near Seattle where love of coffee is mandated by law.

Incidentally, after several years I decided I would rather drink much smaller amounts of regular coffee, and I no longer drink decaf.

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