Metal Cutting Band Saw or Cold Saw

Cold saw.....

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>I too have a 14" abrasive saw and dislike using it for the same reasons. The mess and smell and hazards are to much most of the time. Or more honestly, I only use the abrasive saw OUTSIDE and it's TOO COLD to use it outside alot of the time, even in Atlanta ;)

I compare a vertical metal cutting bandsaw to a woodcutting bandsaw and a horizontal bandsaw to a chop saw in use.

I have never used a vertical metal cutting bandsaw, and for more intricate cutting perhaps it is better, just like wood. But several of my clients, including the Metal Supermarket, that cuts metal all day long for profit, use several horizontal bandsaws.

For what you are describing, mostly cutting to length, I think the horizontal saw would be best. I have never seen anyone use a vertical one for cuttign to length.

I use a Milwaukee portable bandsaw, which cuts like a hozizontal saw. If marked in advance I usualy can get a clean cut using that and a quick trip to the disc sander makes it perfect. If often thought about getting a horizontal saw, liek the one pictured, but hesitated due to the money. I sure would be quicker and more accurate. I wouln't get a HarborFreight noname, but these little Jets are seen doing very respectible job beside their much larger Do-All cousins.

I saw the small variable speed Jet last week in action cutting 1/4" walled 1" angle quickly and accurately....... hundreds of cuts.

The one advantage to the two-speed vertical bandsaw, is if you don't already have one for wood, yuo can use the same one for both wood and metal. You might not want to but you could.

Happy Woodworking!

Re: Metal Cutting Band Saw or Cold Saw

John Lucas

>Stephen I can't answer your question on the cold saw but I bought an antique powered hacksaw. It cost me $35 and cuts an extremely fine cut. I'm told it cuts much cleaner than a horizontal bandsaw. It makes no noise, doesn't need liquid, and clean up is just fine dust laying below the blade. The only downside is mine doesn't have a cam to lift the blade on the backstroke so it dulls the blades quickly. It will cut through a piece of 1" drill rod and you have to reverse the blade. that's the good side. Since it cuts on both strokes I just swap the blade around and use the other end until it gets dull. It cuts through a fair amount of mild steel before getting dull. I cut a 6" piece of 1/2" think plate the other day and it only took about 4 swipes with the file to get rid of all the cutting marks. I would highly recommend it for your use. It's also a barrel of laughs to watch it work.

Re: Metal Cutting Band Saw or Cold Saw

Scott Whiting - Glendale, AZ

>What will limit your use of a metal cutting bandsaw is how hard is the material being cut. For example when I cut steel blanks for profile knives I have to use a cutoff saw like you have because M2 is harder than the teeth on the bands you can buy.

The other saw you are talking about is a low rpm metal cutting saw. It is mostly for softer metals but there are a few blades out there that will cut stainless. The blades are expensive and dull quickly but the material can be held immediately after cutting. They are quieter than what you have now but not by much.

A cold saw will run you several thousand even used and most require 3 PH power. They use a HSS hollow ground blade with 150-250 teeth and as the name implies full flood coolant systems.

Re: Metal Cutting Band Saw or Cold Saw

ScottS

>I've been doing quite a bit of metalwork recently. I hate abrasive chop saws and needed a way to cut metal to length...

I ruled out horizontal bandsaws almost immediately; my shop is already cramped and they take up too much room. The place where I've been taking metal-working classes has several large horizontal bandsaws... and none of them seem to be especially accurate. Don't know if that's endemic to the design or if their machines just aren't properly adjusted. Probably the latter.

In the end, I bought a 14" dry cut saw; they're sometimes called a multi-cutter saw. The tool is similar to an abrasive chop saw, except it spins at a slower rate and uses a carbide-tipped blade rather than an abrasive wheel. I bought the Milwaukee 6190-20 from Amazon for around $400. Also considered the Dewalt DW872. Reviews at various on-line forums seemed to indicate that the vise on the DeWalt wasn't great, which is what drove me to the Milwaukee.

The good news is: this saw cuts great... when the blade is sharp. My recent projects involve cutting 1" and 2" square tubing. The machine is accurate as long as you take the time to set it up properly (read: don't trust the markings on the base for anything). Lining up cuts isn't nearly as easy as it is with the TwinLaser CMS I own, but it's doable. The saw cuts quickly, too! I'd guess it's twice as fast as an abrasive chop saw and 4X (or more) faster than a bandsaw. I haven't used the DeWalt machine, but the vise on the Milwaukee seems to hold things securely. There's no soft start on the motor, so expect a decent jerk when you pull the trigger. I find the saw to be just as loud as an abrasive chop saw, though it cuts much faster so you don't have to listen to it for as long. That said, I never pull the trigger without hearing protection.

Once nice feature of the dry cut saw, which I haven't been able to duplicate with an abrasive chop saw nor horizontal bandsaw, is the ability to a small sliver of metal off the end of a piece. This is great when you're trying to fit a new brace or support to an existing structure. With the dry cut saw, I can easily cut a 1/16" shaving off the end of a piece so that it fits perfectly. With the abrasive chop saws and bandsaws I've used, I'm lucky if I can take of anything less than 1/4" cleanly.

Unlike an abrasive saw, the dry cut saw doesn't generate many sparks... when the blade is sharp. It does throw small chips of metal all over the place. Eye protection is an absolute requirement when using this tool!!! There's a catch pan in the base, which collects about 10-15% of the chips. The cutting process doesn't generate a lot of heat; I routinely handle large pieces bare-handed immediately after sawing and haven't been burned yet. That said, chips flying off the saw are hot, if only briefly. As a result, I do not use this tool with my dust collector and I would be afraid to do so.

The big downside to the Milwaukee, and perhaps other dry cut saws, is the blade. Milwaukee says they'll last for thousands of cuts. The one that came with my saw lasted for a couple-hundred before it was unusably dull. I had it sharpened by a local shop and got a few dozen more cuts out of it before it went dull again. Part of the problem may have been my cutting technique. I'd read lots of stories about people chipping the carbide off the teeth, so I may not have been putting enough pressure on the blade during cuts. But I've also read a number of complaints about the quality of Milwaukee's stock blade. Ended up replacing it with a Metal Devil blade ($100-125), which seems to be doing much better. FWIW, cutting through large flat surfaces, like the top of a 2" square tube, seems to cause the most difficulty for the saw and presumably the most wear on the blade.

Cuts from the new Metal Devil blade are pretty clean. Every now and then the off-cut side might need a bit of filing. I think I've only seen this when cutting 45-degree miters. IIRC, 90-degree cuts have always been clean on both sides of the cut line.

Aside from the problems with the stock blade, I've been very happy with the saw. It cuts faster and more accurately than any other metal-cutting tool I've used!

Distance, path, friction, spit out

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>"...cutting through large flat surfaces, like the top of a 2" square tube, seems to cause the most difficulty for the saw...

That is probably true of most saw blades including the 14" abrasive wheel.

You see that when you cut angle iron. If you cut it laying down (so it looks like an upside down V) it's fine, but if you cut it where it's sittng like an L (or upside down L) while it's cutting the vertical side, the blade only needs to scrape the metal particles 3/16" inch to the other side before it's released and shot out.

When it hits the horizontal flat side, now instead of of having to scrape and drag the particles 3/16" in distance, it has to scrap it 2" before it gets to the back and it's released and shot out.

In the 3/16" travel the particles get hot but are released fairly quickly, when they travel 2" they get much hotter.

I bet most people already know this, but it took me a few days of using my chop saw until I understood what was going on.

This is probably also true of a tablesaw blade cutting through wood and another argument for having the tablesaw blade up as high as it will go - shorter path through the wood, quicker in-out, should produce less heat build up.

I'm not sure if it's true, but that's my theory at least ;)

Happy Woodworking!

Re: Metal Cutting Band Saw or Cold Saw

wes bischel

>I'll second the power hacksaw. Mine is set-up to shut off at the end of the cut so I can be doing other things while it cuts. The footprint is also relatively small compared to a horizontal band saw. It's also a hoot to watch.

They come up on eBay frequently.

FWIW,

Wes

Cuttin steel.

Virgil Johnson

>If you are sawing a variety of thicknesses and types of material on a casual basis then the cold saw is not the saw you need. Cold saw blade types must be optimized for the thickness of material cut. There is no "one size fits all" blade. We had a manual Scotchman 14" cold saw at the job shop I worked at and we simply had too much of a variety of short run sawing to get the best results from the machine. I have a 300.00 Jet cut off saw that is pretty darn accurate for a cut off saw especially a 300.00 one. With a good quality blade there is very little drift but the finish is still a bandsaw finish.

Re: Metal Cutting Band Saw or Cold Saw

Tom MacGregor

>So I'm NOT the only one who uses a vintage power hacksaw! I had to fiddle with it to time the cam correctly but that's it. Not fast, but easy to use and makes a good cut. Late '30s era & it cost me $20. Was amazed to find that blades are still available. And yeah, laughed my butt off the first time it chugged through a piece of stock.

Big budget? Try a plasma cutter :-)

Clem Wixted, Jonesboro, AR

>

Re: Big budget? Try a plasma cutter :-)

ScottS

>If you don't like the sparks from an abrasive chop saw... a plasma cutter is not the way to go! There are cheap Chinese plasma cutters available for around $400. Reviews have been mixed. If they work, they seem to work well. If they don't work... you're not likely to get them fixed or get your money back.

Thanks to all.

Stephen Roth, Chatham NJ

>Once again, the breadth of knowledge and experience on this site is impressive.

I am going with the dry-cut saw. The deciding factor was ScottS' point that I could shave a bit off the cut using that saw.

PS: I do like the idea of watching the power hacksaw work, but maybe I'll wait until I retire and connect it to a waterwheel .. just kidding.

Re: Big budget? Try a plasma cutter :-)

Kevin Rabenaldt

>The answer to that is, don't buy a cheap Chinese plasma cutter. There are plenty of US made machines that do an excellent job. I personally do not like to spend any amount of money that is going down the drain.

Kevin