OT--buying computers on e-bay

Not for the faint of heart

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>Most I've seen or purchased are machines that have come from the end of a lease. Prices can be decnt if you're patient. But like you've noticed they hard drives will be wiped if present at all. So plan on some serious work obtaining original drivers and such. Not something you want to get into unless you've had some experience doing it. For that reason stick with Dell and HPs as you'll have better luck finding what you need.

For some people (like me) with a license to install lots of OS copies with no cost, it can be good, but otherwise plan on buying OS licenses. That in itself usually tips the scales in favor of buying new.

One other thing to think of. Computers, more than any product you can imagine, drops in value quickly. The PC your looking at may have been bought for $1000 last year. A $700 computer this year may be moer powerful. And the (private) seller probably still has $1000 in his head and will want $800 for it. Equipment that is off lease (coming from a recycling business) will be 3-4 years old, so consider that the best PC's made 3 years ago are slower than a $399 desktop today, and it may not be worth it.

If you can get them cheap enough, and have the time to spent setting them up, you can come out ahead. Just make sure you know what you're getting into.

Happy Woodworking!

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

Mike-in-Michigan

>I've bought litterly 100's of Dell refurbs off Ebay and bunches of IBM Refurb laptops. If you can find a dealer who sells a lot of them you can make great deals w/OS installed, COA's, and whatever you want with them. Then track your prices vs new. Trouble is, if you aren't buying 15-20 or more you can probably do w/in 100$ of the same price on a brand new machine .. it doesn't get into real savings until you go 50 or more machines .. a couple grand on 20 boxes ain't worth the possible headaches in my book, but for some it is. Check out the sellers, see if they have a store on Ebay, they will probably have a phone number too. Give them a call and see if you can't make a deal.

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay *LINK*

Ernie Miller

>If you need a bunch cheap check out your local Government surpluss center or school. Mark is right though here is a listing for a local school here most have no opening bid at $10 no HD no OS

AMD Duron 900 computer

Base 128 Pro AGP video card

Asus A7V-E mother board with on board sound

128MB PC133 RAM

No operating system

No hard drive

Windows 98 SE license included

Rock Creek USD 323 surplus


http://www.purplewaveauction.net/cgi-bin/mndetails.cgi?purple29

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

Brodie Brickey

>Go to Dell's outlet.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/dimen?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh

They have systems at reasonable prices with OS loaded.

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

Fred

>Second the Dell "factory outlet". I've bought 4 or 5 refurb ones from there CHEAP. I'm talking $170 - $330 shipped.

You have to be persistent - the cheapest ones only show up occasionally and only last minutes (or seconds). Keep refreshing their list and sort by price, and you'll eventually come up with some steals!

COA?

Gary Evans Tallassee, TN

>Hey Mike,

If you would, explain to me what COA means. I saw it mentioned on several auctions, but not a term I'm familiar with. I think it means that because the machine had, for instance, XP on it to start with, that it is legal to put my own copy of XP back on, but I'm not sure.

Thanks,

Gary

Re: COA?

Mike-in-Michigan

>Certificate of Authenticity -- COA ... means it is a legal copy.

As to putting your own copy of XP on a box, it's ok, but you will have to do some gymnastics to get it activated. Either the internet method they have or a phone call. Problem is though, if you copy of XP is a OEM version (IE came on a dell or Hp) you can't always xfer it to another machine. That's what OEM means. MS can be a real pain about that. But I don't usually buy a machine w/o a copy of the OS installed.

I do build machines from time to time for specific uses, then I buy XP Pro from Newegg or some such for 130-150$ for OEM copy. Retail costs more.

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

Robert Hutchins

>Hi Gary,

What does 'several' mean? And, why do all the computers have to be identical? Finally, what are they to be used for?

It's difficult to make specific recommendations in light of vague requirements. For instance, would Celeron (or the AMD equivalent) be acceptable for your purposes? Do you need to buy a 'name' to satisfy a financial type? What is the expected life or required ROI on the machines? How much processing power do they need? How much communications bandwidth? Will they run large, complex applications or simple ones? Are there special ergonomic needs for users or will they run in a lights-out computer room? Do you need monitors, keyboards and mice? What about speakers? Do they need to be portable, or even tranportable (might matter wrt cases).

With those answers, it might be easier to choose between ebay purchases and low-end machines from sources like tigerdirect.com or buy.com. At least with the latter sources you have some predictable recourse should you have problems and you will be getting machines that are previously unused, ergo unabused or environmentally abused.

Sorry to have more questions than answers but I was responsible for all computer purchases (mainframes, minis, micros) for 25 years. It's easy to overspend and to underspend if you aren't honest about your needs.

Sticker

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>The COA or Certificate of Authenticity (for an OS) is the sticker that goes on the PC.

As a system builder I have the right to buy OEM copies of the OS to install on machines that I build and sell. OEN versions are much elss expensive.

When buying the software, the full retail version (with box, CD and COA) are avaialbe to anyone, if you're an "authorized" system build you can buy the CD's and the COA labels separately. You need to have a COA for each system you build/sell but you don't have to buy the CD's so you can buy the CD's for $20 seprately from the COA (stickers) that are more expensive. Vendors are not supposed to sell OEM versions of software to the public, only to system builders when they are buying the major components to build a PC, like the motherboard case and such. But they get around that by saying as long as you buy SOME hardware, we'll sell the OEM software, and make you buy a $6 cable or something like that.

Alot of Computer Recyclers will provide a COA from an older OS like 98/ME/2000 when you putchase the used computer, which allows you to leaglly use an XP/VIsta upgrade instead of a full version.

Happy Woodworking!

Sorta like....

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>"...It's easy to overspend and to underspend if you aren't honest about your needs...."

Sorta like woodworking tools, eh? ;)

Happy Woodworking!

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

Gary Evans Tallassee, TN

>Hi Robert,

All good questions. I didn't provide a lot of detail because I'm in the process of setting up an internet cafe and didn't want to get slammed by the commercial posting police.

I'm looking at 5 or 6 units to start. I thought having identical work stations would just be a nicer look than having 5 or 6 different machines. Naturally, I'll need monitors for all of them. I'm going to need at least a couple with Office or some similar software package for those that actually want to do some work, rather than just cruise the net. I'm still in the planning stages and just noodling about what my needs will be and where to go to meet my needs for the least cash. I may end up leasing the equipment, as there are some tax advantages to that approach.

Thanks everybody for your help, especially the info on COA's. I'm well aware that it's buyer beware when you get into buying something like computers through ebay. This discussion is an important part of my homework.

Gary

True, but

Curt Harms

>The woodworking tool I overspent for will be of some use in 10 years.

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

M. McNamee

>I would never buy one my companies end of lease laptops. They run at least 8 hrs a day 5-6 days a week. Subjected to all kinds of travel bumps, weather changes and overall treated like a piece of luggage. Mine is coming due for a refresh and at 3 years I am amazed it still works. Because I learned how to type, the worn off key letters/numbers do not bother me. The CD no longer burns CD's and the net plug is shot, I have to dock it to make my wired connection. I back up the hard drive every other day because odds are catching up with me.

If you're interested in looks.....

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>Buy new keyboards and mice and LCD screens.... the nhide the computers away so they aren't seen. That's how they should be anyways in a icafe.

Happy Woodworking!

Inquiring minds (moderate hijack)

Robert Hutchins

>Hi Mark!

Sent you a pm I thought you'd like.

What is your position v�s a v�s flash drives for a caf�? If you would allow them, I presume you would want to enforce some kind of virus protection. What would that be? Where would you place the USB port? On the keyboard? What measures would you suggest to protect mice (mouses? meese?) and keyboards against theft? Do they make hardened, shielded cables? I would assume that all cables (kb, mouse, monitor) should go through a countertop or wall partition and through a seize lock to ensure no one has access to system ports.

Sorry about the hijack, Gary. Curiosity killed the cat, didn't it?

Re: Inquiring minds (moderate hijack)

Gary Evans Tallassee, TN

>Actually, Robert,

I will be quite interested to hear the answers. I don't feel like I can ask specific questions regarding setting up an icafe, since I'm getting ready to start one.

Thanks for your curiosity,

Gary

all the same is excalty what you want

Joe Piotrowski - Chicago Burb's

>especially for you use having the exact same boxes is a IT blessing.

set them up the way you want with what software then use a program like Ghost to make 1 image.

not troubleshooting your machine is as simple as restoring the drive. easy as 1 2 3 for simple and quick IT support. tier one companies use this to cut down on support staff dealing with end users that abused the heck out of the machine!

if you have 5 or 6 on the floor get one more for a swap out if you can afford it. zero down time. it will also allow you to install patches and make a new image.

good luck.

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay *LINK*

albertabob

>There was an enlightening discussion of ebay problems on ZDnet yesterday.

I recommend everybody read it and make up you own minds.

I was defrauded 3 different times on Ebay over the last 5 years and most recently for roughly $400.00.

If you read the convoluted fine print at Ebay you will find little to protect you and in my case, 2 of the vendors are still active.

Let's just say I am cured.

Bob


Fraud on Ebay

Re: OT--buying computers on e-bay

Mike-in-Michigan

>Internet Cafe's type usage won't take a big machine. I would look seriously @ the Dell Optiplex GX series from refurb dealers. The 260's are going for 100-150$ or so on Ebay. They are nice and small, with decent performance. Buy from one of the rehab dealers with lots of feedback. You should be able to buy machines with full OS setups of XP Pro .. You should get at least a 30 day warranty, 90 would be nice. For sure nothing that isn't guaranteed not DOA.

I agree on the new keyboard, mouse, monitor approach .. hide the units. My first thought is no USB access but folks will probably want to bring in stuff if you allow it so you probably have to. Setup XP correctly to limit where they can put stuff, limit installation of software, etc. The IMAGE idea to restore machines is a good one too.

Personally I might consider a nice server and use thin clients, but the cost would be a lot higher but the control would be very nice.

Protect the innocent from the naughties

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>I would imagine you'll have to have some sort of "surf at your own risk" legal statment/waiver thing.

Sicne it sounds like this is a startup/idea business, you probably can't afford a proxy server. I'm not sure any internet cafe's do this, but they could. Most internet cafe's that I'v even been in (in tourist areas) seem to be an added feature that a mom/pop ice shop get's their teenage son to setup, and it's done on a shoe string budget.

A "proxy" server is a server that all the clients (PC) has to go THROUGH in order to get to the internet. Normally in most homes and smaller businesses, you only have the PC's talk to the router to get to the internet and inexpensive routers have very limited capabilities for monitor/filtering where each person surfs.

Large companies that need tighter control on monitoring/filtering/limiting where employees go utilize a "proxy" server. Software on the server intercepts and relays all requests from the computers to the internet, so detailed monitoring and filters can be setup.

I think this is overkill if you're just starting up this business. I just mention it so you understand how it could be done.

Assuming you have a dozen independant computers talking to the internet through the router (like your home network probably is) then surfers are going to surf porn. I've been in this business logn enough to know that eventually (sooner than you think) someone will surf porn. I estimate it will be in the 2nd or 3rd hour of your first day of operation.

Some sort of legal disclaimer that says "the internet is dangerous, you are responsible for your surfing, nothing lewd or illegal will be tolerated, etc....."

The trouble I see you getting into is when some more innocent person, let's say a mom with younger kids, sits on the computer that was used earlier that day by a twenty-somthing guy with a weakness for perversly weird. She could see something leftover from the earlier session and become very upset with your icafe. I've seen this happen (not in a icafe setting, though).

I don't have any answers for you on this other than it's something you better think about and consider. I'm sure there is lots of informantion and advise, on this sort of thing out there on the web for your to read up on, and probably a dozen opinions on this.

I have clients who have "visitor" computers for their clients set up in lobbies, waiting rooms, etc and this sort of thing happens. I think that it's up to you, however hard, to make an effort to protect the innocent.

Happy Woodworking!