Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Thomas Skaggs, Foothills of Mount Level

>Mortising chisels/bits really take abuse. My advice is to buy the good ones.

Tom

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Jay St. Peter - Southern MD

>I recently bought a PM701 mortiser. I bought a set of cheap chisels to get started with plans of replacing the most used sizes with nicer models later. But, the bit length was too short on the ones I bought for the bit to reach the chuck when the chisel was installed. I'll probably suck it up and get the LV premium set.

Jay St. Peter

Re: Clarification ...

Jay St. Peter - Southern MD

>The cheap bits I bought weren't the Deltas sold by LV.

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Bob Lang

>In the next "Woodworking" magazine we review several brands of these. The magazine won't be on sale until the end of the month, and I can't give out all the results, but I will say that we didn't find enough of a difference to justify buying the high-priced ones.

Get the cone-shaped sharpener and give the chisels a quick honing inside & out.

Bob Lang

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Jay St. Peter - Southern MD

>I'll wait for that before getting my next set. I tried to follow the procedures on your blog to prep the cheap set I bought. It took a lot of effort trying to hone the faces of the chisels. Did I over do it? Perhaps I just bought a cheaper set than you tested ;) Unfortunately, I had them all tuned up before realizing they were too short for my machine.

Jay St. Peter

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Doug in Denver

>I used the ones that came with my Jet on walnut and the sharp corners of the bit flared out because there is not much metal at the tips. Can't imagine how these could ever work nmaple or harder woods.

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Bob Lang

>You might use a coarser paper to start dressing the outsides to get rid of grinding marks. I used 150 grit stuck to a cast iron machine bed with double sided tape and had some pretty nasty marks out in less than 5 minutes.

I also don't want to disparage the Lee Valley premium chisels. They were in the nicest initial shape of all the ones we tested, and there are pricier ones on the market that I would avoid. It's a time vs. money thing. I come from "frugal" stock (some would call it cheap but that's not accurate) and assume I'll need to do some work on a new cutting tool. If time were more important than money, I'd go with them.

Bob Lang

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

mdclor

>I use the set that came with my Jet mortiser in white oak and they seem to be fine. I measure the opening and it is within 1-2 thousandths of the nominal size.

FWIW,

Merle

I've had both

Neal in San Jose

>The premium ones I have are the ones Garrett Wade used to sell for about a "C" note each! They are very nice! I did not pay that for them, but got them in some horse trading.

The two differences I have noted are that the cheap ones don't hold an edge well (and this varies wildly from chisel to chisel), and they tend to be all over the map with regard to size, altho they do seem to be square (not rectangular). WRT edge holding, who cares? I'm a hobbiest and don't use my mortiser that often, so that isn't a big deal. The size issue didn't matter much either since I cut my mortise first, and size the tennon to match the mortise. The worst one I had size-wise was a chisel marked 1/2 that was slightly over 9/16. Whew!

The biggest issue is that NONE of these chisels will come from the maker anywhere near sharp enough to use. Use the set-up advice you've gotten as a starting point. I polish the inside bore of the chisel as well as the auger so that chips clear easier. I've found the sharpening cone thingeys to be inadequate. I use a Dremel tool and a small grit-impregnated rubber burr on the inside bevel and my normal sharpening method on the outside. Do yourself a favor and make it as sharp as you know how. Think about it - you are pushing a 2 inch cutting edge when using a 1/2 inch chisel.

HTH Neal

Fisch chisel review

Robin Corell, Atascadero CA

>I am in the proces of restoring a 1920's mortising machine and part of the restoration will be buying a full set of bits and chisels. To see how well the machine was working before tearing it apart I went of to my local tool supply and picked up a 3/8" Fisch. this is the higher quallity austrian replacement that Delta sells for their machines. I think it was about $21 for the chisel and bit. It was sharp and ready to go without any honing. I used it to cut 8 mortises 1.5"x3"x3"deep in some really tough red elm. The elm is abrasive but not too hard. the cutting edge held up and the elm is really harsh on planer knives. The bit is too short to get a good bite and tighten it down in my machine to try cutting something hard like sycamore so I cant give a review of how chip resistant the bits are

I will likely end up buying the Clico bits and chisels for aprox $77 each from Tools For Working Wood because they are longer and fit my machine better.

If the shorter fisch bits would work I would strongly recomend them. the price is not an indication of poor quallity.

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Kirk (KC) Constable

>I buy the JET chisels, for no particular reason other than they were available at Woodcraft when I needed them. Used them right out of the box, and cut a bunch of perfectly good mortises without any honing.

KC

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Larry Clinton in Frankfort, Indiana

>I have the Fisch 3/4 hp benchtop morticer. I purchased it at the Indy tool show a couple years ago, it came with a Guildcraft chisel / bit set. This set was perfectly sharp as received, the outside of the chisels highly polished. I have used the 1/4" bit to cut many mortices in white oak as well as other woods (including Locust -one of the hardest domestic woods). The slot width is within .002" of .250. Bit is still sharp. I do have the cone sharpener but haven't used it yet. Last year I was at the WW show in Indianapolis and stopped at the Fisch exibition. I was looking at the Fisch brand bits, thinking I might want to purchase some to have a "better" set. After looking the bits over, I found they were not as well finished as the Guildcraft bits. The rep said the Fisch were probably a slightly better grade of steel but would require honing before they were as sharp as the Guildcraft. Possibly I received some of the better Guildcraft, but I haven't seen any problem with the steel, cutting preformance or accuracy. I didn't purchase the Fisch bits, think I will wait till my existing set wears out.

I have a couple of sets

Garrett in Victoria BC

>The first came with a Delta(?) mortising kit for the drill press, and the second with my General mortiser. Undoubtedly not among the expensive brands, but they work quite well.

Note that there are at least 2 different shank sizes on mortising chisels, so ensure whatever you buy fits your mortiser or that there is an adapter available. I know this because I have both sizes, but an adapter did come with the General so I use chisels from either set as required.

Sat-up on the mortiser is probably the most important factor in achieving food results, especially the correct clearance between chisel and bit. However, I invested a couple of hours to polish the exterior surfaces of the chisels on both sets using a honing wheel - although the General had a much better finish to begin - and used the Lee Valley cones to sharpen the chisels. I also sharpened the cutting edges of the drill bits with a small file. I have no problems cutting mortises in hard maple with any of the smaller chisels, but clearly, difficulty and temperatures increase with hardness and chisel size. While I can use a 1/2" or 5/8" chisel in pine, for example, I would never attempt to use them in maple.

If you're willing to tune them up, buy an inexpensive set. If not, buy the expensive 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8 sizes, recognizing that these are really all you'll need, and that you're paying extra for not having to do the tweaking .

Cheers, Garrett

Re: Premium vs regular hollow mortise chisels

Jay St. Peter

>Bob, Thanks!

Sounds like I did the right thing. Unfortunately I'll have to do it again. All I had on had was 320, and it took 5-15 minutes each depending on size. They also had some sort of coating on them. I tried a couple things to disolve it, but to no avail. So, the first piece of sandpaper was dedicated to removing the coating. I thought I was out, but opened my cabinet to find a brand new can of lacquer thinner after the fact.

I'm with you on this one. I only really bought the machine because it was a good deal. I was hoping to keep it so by not blowing the budget on chisels. I'll wait for your review since you won't spoil it for me ;).

Jay