Right Handers using Left Handed Circ Saws

Not left (or right) handed, per se.

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>Here is a response I wrote on the wreck (rec.woodworking on usenet) to a post that used the phrase left hander in the context of whom the saw is designed for. I'm not going to edit it to conform more directly to your post, but there is still some good information (I think) in it.

You're probably leaping to a conclusion that because many (and for many years, virtually all) circular saws have the blade on the right hand side that they're built for left handers.

However, it's only in recent years that using circular saws for other purposes than cutting framing lumber came into much more of a vogue than rarely. Consider a job site with a couple of sawhorses and a pile of 2x awaiting trimming. Assume you're right handed. You step up to the pile with the waste side of the mark to the right, you put your left knee up on the board, and/or put your left hand on the board, and holding the saw in your right hand, with the body of the saw sitting on the keep side of the line, you whack off the waste. All is right in the universe. It's the safest, most practical way to make that cut with that saw. Consequently, that right side bladed saw is designed for right handers.

Yes, the cut line is on the opposite side of the saw from your body. That, however, is a small price to pay to be able to have the keep side of the work support the weight of the saw, while at the same time being positioned and restrained by your free hand.

Now, consider the new fangled left side blade. In the scenario above, you can still use your knee and/or free hand to support the keep side of the wood, but the saw is resting on the waste side of the (readily visible, admittedly) cut line, necessitating some weight/balance gymnastics as the saw completes the cut.

No, that saw is designed for a left hander, although since left handers customarily get short shrift in tool design (I'm a righty, pandering to the left handed audience here) no one ever built a "left handed" saw until sometime in the last ten or so years.

Nowadays, people are using circular saws for much more than cutting framing material, such as dimensioning sheet goods, for example, and the setup therein provides ample support for the body of the saw, and tips the balance in favor of having the cut line on the visible side of the saw body. Thus, the blade on the left saw oxymoronically built for right handers.

So, there's why your "left handed saw" hypothesis is faulty and why we came to have blades on the right on right handed saws.

So far as your query about worm drives, I can't say with any confidence, but I suspect that worm drives probably are used more for cutting sheet goods than framing sticks. Otherwise all the preceding applies equally.

Rod

Ok, I'll bite

Gary Camp, Bend, Oregon

>What is there to be concerned with left side blades, beyond what I should worry about with right side blades? If I were to go buy a "sidewinder" right now I would buy a blade left saw. I grew up using worm drives, I drive the saw with my right hand. When I use a "sidwinder" I feel like I have to look across my arm and the saw to see the blade and cut line. That is the most awkward feeling thing I do in the shop. When I use a "sidewinder" I end up pulling the trigger with my left hand and guiding the saw by the blade gaurd with mt right hand. You know, for me the blade still isn't where I feel like I can see it comfortably. Maybe it's "cuase I grew up on the "left coast" that a left hand saw is the most comfortable.

glc

Re: Not left (or right) handed, per se.

Gary Camp, Bend, Oregon

>Hi Rod, over here on the wrong (as opposed to the Right) coast, you only very rarely see, see a "sidewinder" on a framing crew. I see your point about keeping the bigger side of the saw base on the keep side of the line, but, to be honest for me seeing the line is much more important. Also, I think the way I and a lot other stick cutters use a worm drive is different than you might expect. I tend to cut down rather than across. I hold the work piece kind of on edge line the saw up and let gravity do a lot of the work.

glc

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Dan CLermont in Burnaby

>Hi Gary

I don't really get it either. Maybe you can make more sense out of this e-mail then me.

Allot of the pics show the operator pushing a Right hand saw on the Right hand saw

Here is the e-mail

Hi Dan,

While looking at the EZ Smart you have noticed that we are very vocal about our preference for blade right saws. The reason for that is because of the many users who are right handed but using a left blade saw. For them the left blade saw isn't the best choice because a person who is right handed would be working against themselves while trying to use a blade-left saw. Most users who have a blade left saw do so due to the advantage of a better sight line of the cut, but that is not needed with the guide. The guide becomes the sight line and the saw follows the guide.

Crosscutting with the sliding square for a right hand user with a right bladed saw:

1. Measure from left to right. The keeper piece will be on your left and under the guide.

2. Place square on the left side of the rail.

3. Place the guide rail on the left side of the cutting line. (on the keeper piece)

4. Place the saw on the guide so your cut will be on the right side of the guide rail.

A right handed user works easier with a blade right saw because both the guide and the body of the saw are between them and the spinning blade. The farther away from the blade, the better it is for the user. Your dominant hand needs to be in control of the saw while your other hand steadies the square, guide or material.

A person who is right handed and using a blade right saw uses their right hand to push the saw, which means the square is mounted on the left side of both the guide and saw blade (as shown on the website) allowing the user to steady or control the square with their free hand. If one were to try to use a blade left saw with the square on the guide as it would be setup for a right hander, they would have both the square and the saw blade on the same side, thus cutting into the square.

If the square were to be switched to the right hand side of the guide it would appear that the problem of a blade left saw would be solved. You would then have the square on the right side of the guide and the saw blade would be cutting on the left side of the guide, and it might seem like a logical solution. But with a right handed person using a blade left saw, their free hand would be to the left of the saw and guide and the square would be to the right. You couldn't reach the square to hold it in place with your non-dominant free hand. If you were to try to hold the rail to steady it, you either have your hand in front of the blade where it could get cut or behind the saw where any kind of kickback would also give you a cut. Your rail would be on a piece that you have no way to reach or control. Your body would also be closer to the blade. The only way to make the cut is by pushing the saw with your left hand and holding the square against the work with your right hand. This forces you to switch from your natural order of hand usage. So if you are right handed it just makes more sense to use a blade right saw and avoid the above issues.

The above is just one example of why users can find it awkward to use a blade left saw with the EZ Smart if they are right handed. Generally, for ease of use, folks who are right handed should use a blade right saw on the EZ Smart.

Some right handed users feel a blade left saw is better for ripping, but I'm not sure how a left blade saw would be a benefit to a right handed user in that situation. I am right handed. If I start at the end of an 8' piece of plywood and need to rip an 18" wide piece from the plywood I would measure in 18" from the side on both ends and place my rail on the work with my guide's cutting edge on the line. What I would have is the guide edge on the cutting line, with the cutting edge of the guide being the farthest point from me (the guide rail rests between me and the cut line). The guide rail is on the 18" keeper piece, as is ideal. At this point I can place my blade right saw on the guide at the right hand end of the plywood and make my cut. I could reach over the 18" width to the saw with my dominant right hand and push the saw along the guide rail as I move along the edge of the plywood. The handle of the saw is closest to me, the blade and cutting point is the farthest point away from me. It's a safe cut requiring the least amount of reaching on my part.

If I were to use a left blade saw, with my being right handed, the cut I outlined would be more awkward. To make that cut with a left blade saw and work from right to left I would have to do it in a manner that would require measuring for the blade offset before I can place the guide. I would then have to reach over the 18" width, and over to the farther side of the saw to get my hand on the handle. I could then make the cut as I move along the edge of the plywood. I would be reaching farther to get my hand to the saw handle, and the blade would also be closer to me. This cut is more awkward because I'd have to reach farther, plus the blade would be closer than it needs to be. The guide rail would not be on the 18" keeper piece in this case either.

To make that cut as a right hander using a blade left saw I would need to measure in for the 18" and place the guide's cutting edge on the line. I would then have to start my cut on the left end of the plywood and use my left hand to guide the saw handle and make the cut as I move along the edge. This method puts the handle closer to me and the cutting blade farther from me. The awkard part of this is that I need to push the saw with my left hand to make this cut. If I'm right handed I really want my right hand pushing the saw.

For a right handed user the use of a blade left saw offers no advantage, and can actually be more awkward to use.

We realize that this issue with left blade saws and right handed users is a problem for those who already own and/or love their blade left saws. But the right handed user has to be aware of the issues, and understand that they need to work differently if they choose to use the EZ Smart with a blade left saw.

Now that I've pointed out some of the issues of right handed users using blade left saws, I can add a bit more that my be helpful. We encourage any right handed users who are looking for a saw to use with our system to buy a blade right model. But at the same time there is the reality that there are right handed users who have used a left blade saw for a long time and don't want to make the change. We do have a special modified Smart Base for the left blade saws one may currently own. It has all of the features blade right saw users have, including anti-chip protection on both sides of the blade when used on the guide rail. If you should use the saw and Smart Base off the rail you will not have anti-chip protection (this is the only feature not available to blade left saw users). All guide rail cutting does have anti-chip protection, and that is what is most important to users.

The guide rail is bi-directional, and the accessories are as well. The square would mount on the right side of the rail for a blade left user. The repeaters can also be reversed and work for blade left users. The system will work best for a right handed user using a blade right saw, or for a left handed user using a left blade, but a right handed left blade saw user can adapt to it for use with a left blade saw. The difference is that one will need to adjust the way they work and push the saw with their left hand and hold/steady the square with their right hand. Experienced left blade users should be able to work with it. We try very hard to make sure that right handed folks are aware of the issues of using a blade left saw, and would prefer that they use a blade right saw. As I said, for right handers we recommend a blade right saw, but we do recognize that some folks don't want to make a change or upgrade to a new saw.

Crosscutting with the sliding square for a right handed user with a left bladed saw.

1. Measure from right to left. The keeper piece will be on your right and under the guide.

2. Place square on the right side of the rail.

3. Place the guide rail on the right side of the cutting line. (on the keeper piece)

4. Place the saw on the guide so your cut will be on the left side of the guide rail.

The best way to assure that you get a system with the special modified left blade Smart Base is to call Eurekazone and place your order. Mention the fact that you've read Don's e-mailed information regarding blade left saws and right handed users. The phone number is 732-287-2422 and Dino will help you out. If you have more questions, or need clarification regarding what I've written, please feel free to e-mail me again.

If we can be of further assistance please don't hesitate to e-mail.

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Gary Camp, Bend, Oregon

>Beyond it sounding like keeping the the guide and the wide side of the saw base on the keeper piece, it doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe if saw theway an EZ Smart worked it would make more sense. Admittedly, when I cut sheet good I try to keep the wide side of the base on the keeper piece, it isn't critical, just not an issue when cutting sticks.

Burnaby? Like Vancouver?

glc

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Dan CLermont in Burnaby

>Hi Gary

I don't think the guys at EZ Guide have anything financially to gain by suggesting Right handers use Right handed saws on their system and I do understand it would be easier to push and steer a saw with my dominant hand but the saw is guided in this case so unless the saw somehow kicksback in my "non-dominant" hand or I fumble the saw altogether I can't imagine hurting myself or the piece of wood is really possible

I think their is a bigger chance of debris in the eye if you use a left handed saw from the right side

Yep, I live 3 blocks from Vancouver. When are you coming up for a visit ;). Got a big group of West Coast WOodButchers who would like to meet another WoodCentral woodworker

Cheers

Dan Clermont

Dan Clermont

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Rob Stokes in North Vancouver

>Dan - I used a right side sidewinder for years, cheap ones and good ones. I had no use for a left-blade let alone a worm drive but one day I ended up with one in my hand and there was no sayin' "no thanks". So I used it - and used it some more, and got to really like having the blade where I can see it. For me there's no going back now - if I use someone elses right blade, it feels like I'm cutting left handed.

HOWEVER - the one HUGE problem with a left blade saw is it's love of throwing dust in my face. Perhaps that's the reason EZ guide recomends right blade??

Rob

Re: Not left (or right) handed, per se. *LINK*

Lowell Kinzer

>"new fangled left side blade," you say? They've been around longer than the right-sided-blade "sidewinders." The following article describes the origins of the hand-held electric circular saw.


The Great Divide

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Dan CLermont in Burnaby

>Thanks for the input Rob

This specific saw has a pretty efficient dust port which lets you direct most of the saw dust away from you.

When I originally bought the saw I did so on the basis it had a brake and that is how I justified it. Turns out this saw doesn't have the brake and I would have to upgrade for that feature.

When are we running your Skill worm drive saw up against the 15 Amp PC?

Cheers

Dan C

Yabbut…

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>Although it's certainly not clear as I reread my piece, I was directing my development comments toward sidewinders. I have no experience with worm drives, other than to have seen them and know about them. I even think I knew something about their genesis, as well, including being first. I believe History Channel's Modern Marvels covered that in an episode.

My position about “new fangled left side blade” (as applied to sidewinders) remains valid according to the article. The first sidewinders were blade right so that the heavy motors of the day would be supported by the work. It's my recollection that left blade sidewinders are new to the marketplace within the last dozen years or so (please don't nitpick me if it's been 13), let's say sometime in the '90s.

Thanks for the link. That was interesting reading.

Rod

Re: Not left (or right) handed, per se.

Gary Evans Tallassee, TN

>Hi Rod,

The only problem with that argument is that I have rarely been to a jobsite that doesn't have a miter saw. I always take mine. During the framing part of the process, the miter saw is the only tool that I use for cutting 2 by's. It guarantees a square cut.

Dan,

When it was time to replace the old right blade Makita a few months ago, I bought the P-C left blade. This was after several experiences using battery powered saws with left blades. I wouldn't go back to a right blade saw.

I also wouldn't spend the money on a fancy guide system. One of the cheap 8' saw guides, a piece of 1/4" plywood and two quick clamps will give you just as much accuracy and speed as spending several dollars for the latest engineering marvel.

Just my opinion,

Gary

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Rob Stokes in North Vancouver

>Name your date partner!

Rob

Re: Not left (or right) handed, per se.

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>I agree that the modern jobsite is probably as you say. I was trying (apparently ineffectively) to articulate the genesis of the right blade sidewinder, and how it wasn't inherently a design for left-handers. Sort of a how-we-got-here. Someone taking a snapshot view of trade tools in 2007 from an outside perspective may very well get the idea that left bladed sidewinders have always been with us and were designed for right handers. That narrow view is not in concert with the true history of right bladed sidewinders.

The bottom line and my ultimate point is that in the '50s, '60s, '70s, and '80s, virtually every 7¼", garden variety, contractor-style, sidewinder circular saw available was a right blade saw marketed without a handedness in mind (the same short-shrift left handers often complain about).

Rod

Hey ROD?

George@Colonel's Workshop-Havertown PA

>What is the email address of recreational woodworking? I can't seem to find it with my machine. Thanks,

George

why do you hate table saws?

Larry, TN

>It is the center of my shop and one of the safest tools I have. I use an easily removeable Biesemeyer splitter, an over the top Brett guard with dust collection, Biesemeyer fence, push sticks, cross-cut sled, etc. I love my table saw and wouldn't do woodworking without it.

Re: why do you hate table saws?

Dan Clermont

>Hi Larry

The center of my shop couldn't fit a large tablesaw with a proper outfeed table and a 52" Biesmeyer fence. My shop won't allow me to feed a sheet of plywood through a saw. My shp happens to be part of the laundry room and the warm storage where we keep the kids bikes and stuff. My shop measures 12' x 10' and I do share that space.

The safest tool in my shop is a Laguna Bandsaw (and hand tools)which I use to dimension lumber for the most part but a good CS may help cut down sheet goods.

For the most part I hang out on the Hand Tool forum as that is how I have trained myself. My jointer happens to be a handplane as well

I still like you guys though

Hey GEORGE!

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>There's no email address or URL—it's usenet. You have to get to it through your ISP's news service. You'll also need a news reader of some kind. The free version of Agent is what I use, although there are many others.

Rod

I don't hate them but

Joe Piotrowski - Chicago Burb's

>I am starting to see less and less reason for the hassles of a contractor saw. Other than production runs of repetitive cuts, I have not found an operation that is necessary on a TS.

just my .02c

Re: Right Handers using Left Handed Circ Saws

Robert Hutchins

>"Shortly after buying it I started reading about the EZ Guide system and after talking to Dino at EZ Guide he e-mailed me a document regarding issues with right handers using left hand saws."

So, what were the issues cited? Could it be that there was a vested interest behind those points? (Not taking a jab at anyone, but it seems logical absent other information.)

The arguments cited so far in this thread fail to convince me that there is an inherent advantage to the 'motor-left' circular saw. I'm right-handed, and I've used both. In fact, I used a motor left for maybe 30 years before I bought a PC 'motor-right' saw. I would NEVER go back! In retrospect, the act of peering across the saw motor to make cuts with the motor interfering with the hand I use to hold the workpiece seems a very unsafe maneuver.

FWIW: My left-handed brother picked up my 'motor-right' saw one day because it was close at hand. I caught him before he pitched it in the trash. He swore that it was a menace to lefties and that he would cut his hand off if he had to use that saw all day. He is a VERY accomplished carpenter and cabinet maker.

YMMV. Worth what you paid for it. You asked. etc.

Re: Not left (or right) handed, per se.

Gary Camp - Bend, Oregon

>Hi Rod, I have always seen blade left saw marketed as Left hand saws and Blade Right saws marketed as right hand saws, I thought that how Dan describedit, did I miss something?

glc

Re: Hey ROD? *LINK*

Mike L (Orange County, CA)

>Hi George,

You can get an Internet archived version via Google Groups.

Regards,

Mike


the wreck

Re: Ok, I'll bite

Gary Camp, Bend, Oregon

>Dan

I probably won't be that way for quite a while. You be wlecome here too, should you ever be my way.

glc

How do you whittle?

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>I find it easiest to compare it to whittling...

If you're right handed, how did your father teach you to whittle wood?

� Grab wood firmly in LEFT hand.

� Hold knife firmly in RIGHT hand.

� Hold wood firmly in FRONT of your body.

� Cut with knife pointing AWAY from your body.

That's how a right-bladed circular saw works and feels to a right-handed woodworker. At least to me.

I know some right-handers prefer using a left-bladed circular saw so they get a better view of the cut line, but to me that feels as awkward as whittling backwards (drawing the knife towards, not away, from your body).

Happy Woodworking!

Re: Right Handers using Left Handed Circ Saws

Joe Rogers, Northern Virginia

>I have a left handed,red headed son that has described in detail the difficulties in "transcribing" directions and explanations that are instructional in nature. He has to think the drill through and replan every step to reverse the process. It must be tough for him...worse because I have little trouble with spatial relationships and motor skills. The other two sons are right handed and gifted physically ,not that the red head isn't, but his learning curve frustrates him daily.

I think that leftys are prone to thinking they are persecuted for their dissability...ducking and running...:-)JR