OT - synthetic motor oil

Me think....

Hoa Dinh in Alameda

>synthetic motor oil is overrated.

With the current technologies, I think oil change frequency is more important than the kind of oil.

My previous minivan, a Mazda MVP, was 175K miles before I gave it to my sister. She drove it for about 30K miles more then sold it because she commuted farther and needed a smaller vehicle.

My SWMBO's Toyota Celica was 140K miles when it was totalled in an accident.

Both of our current vehicles are about 50K.

I change oil and filter every 5K miles, and don't use synthetic oil.

-- Hoa

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Grant Smith

>John,

Couple things:

1: I wouldn't give much thought to what the salesmen say. They will say anything in order to make a sale. Consider them in the same category with Military recruiters.

2: While synthetic oils have superior characteristics, If I were to run synthetics in my vehicles, I wouldn't extend the changing intervals much beyond the normal 3000 miles or so. This is because regardless of how long the oil lasts, one of its primary purposes is to pick up carbon and other baddies present in the crankcase and deliver them to the oil filter. An oil filter can only hold so much bad stuff before it either begins to slow the flow of oil, or a bypass valve in the filter opens and then the bad stuff gets recirculated.

3: sludge in an engine is due to some combination of these factors:

-excessive heat in the engine breaking down the oil or precipitating solids out of the oil...either due to driving habits, a maintenance issue, or bad engine design to begin with.

-excessive carbon blowby in the cylinders, placing extra carbon and other combustion products in the oil, thereby getting deposited on hotter engine parts. Common in worn engines

-inadequate oil change interval. Note that many of us drive often in stop and go traffic regularly, which is a severe driving condition requiring more frequent oil changes.

I am not preaching against using synthetic oil, because it has its merits, but I will recommend that if you do go that route don't extend your engine oil change interval in an attempt to recoup the costs.

Also note that you will be well advised to properly break in the engine for maybe 5,000- 10,000 miles or so before switching to synthetic.

I suggest you find a good local mechanic to do the routine maintenance on your vehicles. Chain lube shops are famous for slacking off on maintenance items that a good mechanic will do reliably each and every time. Also, a good mechanic that you have built a relationship with can give you good general vehicle purchase advice that is worth infinitely more than anything a salesman or dealership service advisor will tell you.

A good mechanic that works on various makes of vehicles will know precisely what commonly breaks on a given model of vehicle or a given engine or transmission option. This can help you steer clear of models with chronic problems.

FWIW,

Grant in Iowa<---not a mechanic, but my best friend is a good one.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Ted Wong

>About ten years ago Consumer Reports magazine did some testing on the necessity of changing oil every 3000 miles. Their conclusion was that with todays oils synthetic or otherwise there is really no discernable difference if the oil is changed at 3,000, 5,000 or even 6,000 miles.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Rob Sandow

>Right. The 3000 mile rule was actually created by the oil companies to sell more oil. Back in the '70s I remember that recommended oil change frequencies were not so high. My '94 BMW went 8000 miles between manufacturer recommended oil changes. On the other hand, my 2001 8.1L GMC truck burns about a quart of oil every 1500 miles, believe it or not. I usually add 3-4 quarts between oil changes on this thing, so it's almost like it's getting another oil change between changes anyway.

Rob

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Ronald Walls East Liberty,Ohio

>I use synthetic in both of my cars and would use nothing else. The oil comes out just like it was when i put it in. color wise that is. and I change every 10,000 miles. I started this when i had a 1997 jeep wrangler. and the oil pressure ran around 30# when i started using the synthetic it stayed on 50# even when idling. that sold me!!! Make the change it is worth the cost.

If you really want to have some fun...

Bruce, a MN Galoot

>post this question on a motorcycle forum. Dino vs. synth is a holy war on most of them.

Having said that, I know one guy who has more than 400,000 on his 1981 Honda Goldwing. He's run nothing but Mobil 1 15W50 with decent change intervals. I personally believe it's the change interval more than the oil. However, if you've run nothing but regular oil and you now have an older, high mileage vehicle, now is probably not the time to switch to synthetic.

Bruce

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Chuck W

>not to mention cold starts in the -30C range are much easier with synthetic. The cold pour point of a synthetic is at a lower temperature than 'ordinary" oil.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Jay St. Peter - Southern MD

>Most of my vehicles that had 3K mile oil change recommendations only had you change the filter every other oil change. I just use synthetic since it doesn't break down under extreme conditions, go 5K and change the oil and filter. After all my research on the subject, I'm convinced that synthetic is better. What I'm not convinced of is that I'm actually getting any advantage out of it with my oil change intervals as often as they are.

I also know that my manual transmission on my truck is way better with synthetic. It shifts better and quicker using it. YMMV as every trans is different.

If you do switch, I've been told it is a permanent switch. If you go back and forth, the seals in your vehicle are unhappy to see dino again. Pretty good sources on this one, so I have a tendency to believe it.

All in all, a good subject for mythbusters (although they will have to figure out how to work in an explosion or two).

Jay St. Peter

Clogged PVC valve will do it

Malcolm Timbers

>Maybe a clogged PCV valve is causing your problem.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

C Yawn

>Ford recommends changing the oil every 5,000 miles in my 2006 Ranger. I tried synthetic oil for two oil changes but went back to the regular after talking to a mechanic I trust. He indicated the synthetic was good but simply not worth the extra cost compared to regular oil. I do use the synthetic in my motorcycle (it's a Harley Fat Boy, you hear :) ) primarily because of the air cooled engine. Some have told me the synthetic oil would hold up better in the slightly higher heat. Don't know for sure.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Ray SW Ohio

>I use a synthetic blend. I read somewhere that the full synthetic oils do not leave a coat of oil on the inside of an engine especially if you do not drive a lot. I don't drive alot and the blend works for me, I started changing the oil every 5000 miles as in the owners manual. My 2�.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Bill Howatt

>I have heard of some makes having more trouble than others with sludging and that it can be very serious. I wish I knew more about it since I thought sludging had gone the way of the do-do when detergent oils were introduced in the 50's.

I don't use a synthetic because I don't see excessive wear and tear on an engine being an issue. Around here by the time you hit the 12 yr mark the engine is still running fine but the salt has eaten the body away. I hear of more engine problems from blown gaskets dumping anti-freeze into the oil than poor lubrication.

As far as stretching the recommended limits, I wouldn't do it within the warranty period since the manufacturers aren't the most generous souls to deal with.

Bill

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

MAtt Robinette, Mt Juliet Tn

>I am not a expert on it but my understanding is the synthetic oil doesn't break down as fast as the dino oil. The reason for the longer distance between changes is the oil filter used by the manufactures is of higher quality. BMW recommends 15000 between changes with the use of thier filters. The after market filter makers are making filters just for synthetic oil but you have to ask for them. As for the Chevy,Saturn,Harley,Yamaha,Snapper,Colman, Craftsman,Honda,Troy Built at my house they all use dino oil. WHY beacause I am uhhh thrifty.:)

300,000 Miles on my 96 Explorer

Dustmaker Mike

>and all I use is a blend. I have since I hit the 100,000 mile mark. I started useing a blend in my new 03 Explorer as well as my pick up ( yes 3 trucks but they are all paid for). I have 180,000 on my truck and 44,000 on the new Explorer. I change oil every 5000 miles or 5 months which ever comes first. On the truck it is the months.

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Ole' Salty

>Hi. I run a charter boat on Lake Ontario from April 1st. through October every year. The boat Trolls for 6-10 hrs a day for about 130 days every year. This type of operation is MANY time more hard on an engine than auto use. These engines have 10,000 hr on them. I know of no one that gets more than 3,000 hrs on the same type engine using dino oil without a major rebuild.

The mfg of the power plants ( Volvo ) recommended Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 filters from the start.

I have had a chemical Engineer from Castrol on the boat several times and he explained some very technical issues about Synthetic oils and why thay are so superior to dino oil.

I own a Saab which recommends Synthetic.

To summerize. I have every vechile I own on Mobil 1 and would not ever use anything else.

My 2cts

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil (Long)

Gary Evans Tallassee, TN

>Hi John,

I agree with some of the others that your old SUV had some other problem creating the sludging. Changing the oil at 3000 mile intervals is just totally unnecessary with today's oils, unless you are driving a turbo-charged vehicle. When your bearings are spinning at 100,000 rpm, it's best to keep clean oil in the engine.

The only way I would even consider 3000 would be if every single mile that was put on the car was in stop and go and crawl along traffic in high temps, and then I would probably change at 5000. Like somebody else suggested, go with the manufacturer's recommendation for frequency while under warranty. After that, if you change more than every 7500 miles, you are just wasting money and oil.

I also don't see the point in paying extra for the synthetic oils. No doubt they have some technical advantages, as per Ol Salty, but you aren't driving a fishing boat.

I figured up awhile back that my wife and I have put well over 1,500,000 miles on our vehicles in the 30 years that we have been together. During that time the oil got changed whenever I thought about it, and almost always with conventional oil. In all those miles I have never had an oil related failure, except when I tried to run my Fiero without oil. (It pays to look for oil leaks occasionally.) I know for a fact that I went over 10,000 miles between changes at times on my old '82 Nissan pickup. It only made 306,000 miles before I had to sell it. The original clutch had started to slip and I didn't want to have to replace it.

If it matters, I spent more than 20 years working in the repair end of the motorcycle and automobile businesses.

Also, the guys that make up the oil-change frequency recommendations are not necessarily engineers. You'd be surprised how many customers bring their new car back to the dealership for oil and filter changes, even though the dealer is probably the most expensive option in the area. They are playing on your fears, which is something we learned about in Marketing 101.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that an engine only needs about 10 lbs of oil pressure per 1000 rpm. It's nice to see the needle hang up there at 50 when idling, but it's not a necessity for long engine life.

Sorry for being so wordy. I guess it's the NyQuil.

Gary

I believe in full synthetic

Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

>Purchased 1980 F100 w/ 156K miles in 1998. Ten mpg with premium. After 3000 miles changed to full synthetic. First tank of gas went to 12 mpg. Changed to regular and maintained 11.5 mpg. How long did it take to recoup the extra $10 of oil cost? How much wear in that 20 year old engine did I save?

1995 Subaru started leaking oil at 40K just after warranty was gone. They wanted $750 to replace main seal. I put full synthetic Syntec in. The engine would loose a full quart out of 4 in the first thirty miles. There were times that engine had only TWO qts of oil. Traded it at 210K summer of 2005.

My 2004, F150 came with six qts of full syn 5W20 for year around use. Factory says to change at 5K. Extended warranty to 6 yrs/75K. If the oil didn't work, Ford would not offer that much warranty.

I put full synthetic in every engine I own, including push lawnmower. I saw in person, in living, smoking color a demo where they drained the crankcase on several engine blocks. Continued to run engines without oil. Most name brand oils failed in a few minutes. Full syn ran for over thirty! Sold me!

Bill in WNC mountains

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Barry Irby

>Heard Pat Goss of the Motor Week show on PBS on a radio show talking cars. He strongly recommended Synthetic oil. Reluctantly mentioned the brand he sells, but said switch to synthetic, regardless of brand, Period. Went on and on about it, call after call. Said it essentially stops engine wear right where it is when you start using it. Said you should put about 40k on the engine and then start using it and to stretch the interval.

I switched my 97 Honda CRV to it at 140k and changed the oil every 10K. My son is still driving it with 270K on it and no problems. I don't think he has always changed the oil as frequently as that and probably goes 15K sometimes.

A friend has four cars that he and his SWMBO and to daughters drive. He told me he changes the oil once a year. Stocks up on synthetic when it is on sale and then changes all four. His car goes 30k+ between changes. Has never had an oil related problem.

It's cheap insurance

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

>I always view oil as the blood of the engine and never cut corners with it. Since 1980 I've always used Castrol in whatever car I've had.

If in doubt, use what the manufacturer recommends. Maybe not the brand but the type. BMW recommends BMW Synthetic oil. I don't pay the Stealers, oops meant Dealers, price though. I use Castrol synthetic.

I'm on my second BMW. Both live on synthetic oil. The first one I sold with just short of 200,000 miles. It screamed to the redline with out hesitation to the day I sold it. The second one now has 100,000 miles. It purrs and pulls to the redline without a whimper.

Never any sludge and no oil burning ever (meaning never have to add any between changes).

With synthetic I usually change at about 6000 miles. Sometimes though I will change the filter at about 3000. On my current car it is extremely easy to change. The filter is on the top of the engine. Unscrew a cap and the filter cartridge just pulls out. No fuss and no mess.

Joe

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

Tony - Memphis

>I hate to get into these conversations because, as an engineer, I believe in facts and figures and oil changes are surrounded by myths. I worked designing and developing high performance engine components for many years (lots of cup cars and tons of NHRA cars have parts I designed). So, while I do have a background in the stuff, I'm still no expert on anything. But, I use synthetic in my S10 and change it once a year. I drive about 15k/year. It runs fine and gets the same mileage from day one (70k on it now). So, I like synthetic, but I can't offer any valid argument against any other oil. Funny thing is, our new Z book specifies the regular stuff, so that's what I put in it. I also have a '54 Chevy that has untold miles on the original engine and I put whatever I can get that's cheap in it. And it has never had a filter on the engine. They didn't come with 'em. Is there sludge in that motor? I dunno. Fortunately, I haven't had to find out!

Tony

Castrol Synthetic

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>I use Castrol Synthetic in the van I plan to keep a looong time, I let the dealers put in any crap the want in the leased car. I've used Castrol since the 80's and figure it's cheap insurance compared to the cost of repairs and/or replacing vehicles.

New filter and oil every 3000 miles.

When I was working as an automechanic (20+ years ago) there was a guy that came in every Saturday morning at 10am for a oil/filter change. We used Castrol (not synthetic in those days). He got new oil and filter in it every single weekend. He had 500K miles on that old Mercedez and I'm sure buy now he's got a million. In fact, I bet the car outlasted him.

Happy Woodworking!

Got me confused....

Mark Goodall - ATL - tooljunkie

>I'm guessing when you say "dino" oil, you mean regular motor oil coming from crude oil from the earth? "dino" meaning coming from crude oil that was made over millions of years for dinosaur fossils?

But what is "Mobil 1" is that a type of synthetic oil? I'm not sure I've every noticed it. I hop at AutoZone and places like that and I know Castrol, QuakerState, Penzoil and a couple more, but I usually overlook those Texaco, BP, Chevron brand oils. Perhaps I thought "Mobil 1" was just a house brand motor oil? What is it?

Happy Woodworking!

Re: Got me confused....

Jay St. Peter - Southern MD

>Mobil1 used to be the only full synthetic motor oil. The Penzoil and Castrol synthetics are relatively new. Mobil1 is still (arguably) the best of the commonly available synthetics. Mobil1 is OE on a bunch of high performance and exotic autos including the Corvette. It is also my first choice. It is commonly available. I also like the Mobil1 synthetic trans fluid (but check with mfr here as some trannys don't like it, Chrysler minivans for example). Your take on "dino" oil is correct.

Jay

Re: OT - synthetic motor oil

JoeW in Detroit, MI

>I use Amsoil. I use it in a 98 VW Golf 2.0L. I change the oil and the filter every December and the just the filter in July ( top off the oil of course). Car has about 81K on it. The Amsoil rep recommended the use of an engine flush before first putting in their oil to help remove any sludge etc. I've had good luck with it so far.