OT: Electronic Forms

Make it web/network-based

Ellis Walentine

>Hire a programmer to write you an interface that your engineers can access from anywhere -- intra or extra network -- to input the data, changes, etc. All your permissions issues can be written into the code. You can also have pop-up warnings in case important data has been omitted or isn't within parameters. Once you have all the info into your database, you can output it any way you like -- to your print format, to a web display, as a download to a spreadsheet. You can also make simple mods and additions in the future and/or change the output modes.

It's the way to go IMO.

Ellis

Re: OT: Electronic Forms

Dan Donaldson

>You should be able to use Word to do what you are asking, but will probably have to use VBA to make it all work. We use some very complex forms here and most of them are in Word, but use VBA to do the checking/automation.

Ellis's idea is a very good way to go, in that you can simplify the data input portion and then print it out any way you like once you have all of the data. If that is not possible, then Word should work, but you probably need to get yourself a guru to help with it.

Re: Make it web/network-based

Bob Fawcett

>I agree with Ellis.

I work in the same industry. I am also a Network Engineer. Using a WEB based app is not only easier for your programmers, but would make your network people happy. If you try to implement this with Word, or Excel you will multiply your bandwidth requirements. If your company supports multiple sites, go WEB based.

Thanks Ellis,....but

Dominic Greco

>Ellis,

Great idea! And it looks like it would work. But I have no budget to hire a programmer. I need to do this using the tools I have in hand, or can get with little or no capitol expenditure. So as far as a programmer goes, you're looking at him!

The other little twist is that our IT department has made it so I can't load any new software on these computers.

Thanks for the input.

Dominic

Re: OT: Electronic Forms

Rob Stokes in North Vancouver

>Dan - I did something like this years ago and agree with the others when they aim you to something web based. Specifically I used HTML as it was fast and easy. After the ECO was done we followed suit with the ECN etc. as well and eventually added digital signing etc. Crystal reports might be able to give you the hard copy look and feel you need.

I can understand wanting to keep the paper form the same, but it's not realistic to expect to impliment this change with no expense. In fact if that's truly the mandate you've been given I'd politely decline the assignement as it shows exactly how much value your superiors are placing in the process - you can't win, and believe me, it'll take longer and cost more than you (or they) think.

Rob

Re: OT: Electronic Forms

Robert Hutchins

>Howdy Dominic!

Look into Adobe Acrobat - the full-blown version, not just the reader. Seems I recall doing something similar with this software; however I don't recall the details of how we did it or how many copies of the program we had to have. IIRC, we were able to tell who (or at least whose login) made what changes and could track them and even do electronic approvals. One of my people implemented it, not I; so I don't recall the details of how it worked.

HTH

Re: Thanks Ellis,....but

Glenn Madsen near San Francisco

>Then you need to go make friends with the IT department. Not that they will load more software for you, but your system is going to run on their system, probably for a while, if it's done right. How those two work together will be important.

My sons are in the web programming game, From what I understand, there are alternatives to the huge dollar programming tools that you may have seen advertised, and your IT guys probably know about them.

Dominic it sounds like your employer...

Joe in a Cleveland suburb

>wants you to build a Porsche out of Pinto parts. Ain't gonna happen.

Sounds to me like the requirements and expectations need to be defined better. I know I know, engineers and IT people don't get along; each thinks he knows more than the other... :)

I wouldn't use Access either. It's okay for little stuff. Not something that someday could become enterprise or big. Look at SQL Server 2005 Express Edition or something. It's a free download as I recall.

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but why wouldn't your IT department be assigned this job?

Your requirements:

Have write protected areas that the user cannot change.

Sounds like static html in a simple webform.

Have fields where the user can enter their data

Sounds like simple databound fields in a simple webform that have data validation.

Use check boxes and drop down lists that present a list of pre-formatted choices(if possible)

Sounds like simple DropDown Select boxes (either databound or not) in a simple webform.

Have a spell checker

Browser gives you that and/or use simple AJAX code.

form to look EXACTLY like the paper version

Simple jpg image set as webform background with all the databound inputs layed on top.

If I were you, I'd look into Microsloft's VWD2005. It's a free download as well. There's a learning curve, and you'll need a development box with Windoze XP Pro, Win2k, or Win2003 with IIS installed. VWD2005 will give you the ability to create an .Net based web site. You can do all drop and drag if you don't want to do much coding. You can also let it help you build the database structure - as I recall, it has a lite version of MSSql built in, you'd have to check the limitations of that though. It has all the built in controls you can drop onto a form to do the things it sounds like you want to do. Plus you can create your own controls. Check out the downloads at Microsoft's www.asp.net site.

However, before doing any of the above, I'd flow chart out the whole process including what data needs to be collected and so on. After all, isn't each form really just a data record? Each form would have a unique ID as well so you can later see who entered, what was entered, and view it/print it at any time.

Speaking of printing forms, you could look at Business Objects 11. Ties right into the .net suff. You can use it to create forms and reports. For that matter, check out Microsoft's reporting product. I think that's built into SQL2005. I think... we don't use it much as it's not as fancy as BO11, but it might (likely does) meet your requirements.

Not knowing the granular details/requirements, I'd also have tables to collect data showing who as logged in and what they've added to the form and/or created or printed and so on. Collect this data so you can later view an audit trail of what was done.

You said your first task revolves around the ECO form. I'd look at the big picture though. What else will this tail into? How can what it might tail into justify the purchase of a development server and so on to create a true solution to the business requirement/problem.

Define the Business Requirements/problem you need to solve. It sounds like your hands are tied as far as creating a true solution to the business problem though.

Advanced Data collection and verification through RFID, Barcoding, webforms, PLC's and so on for Tier 1 and Tier 2 Auto manufacturer/suppliers is what I do. You think the FAA is bad? Try Honda and Co2 cartridges in air bags... Lets not even mention Wal-Mart and lot traceability in consumable products.

Maybe this is an opportunity for you to work closely with your IT department to create a Robust Business Solution that solves your business problem. Actually, I'm willing to bet that if you work in a Windows shop (most likely these days) your IT guys have all these tools already.

I dunno, this is all off the top of my head and it's just my opinion. Feel free to ignore it. Everybody else does... :)

Have fun.

Joe

I'm With the FAA, and We're Here to Help

Ric Taylor

>Dom,

You didn't mention whether the mandate for the strict layout of the form comes from your employer or the FAA. I've been with the FAA for 25 years, and I can tell you that in the areas that I work in, we very strongly encourage our customers to engage in electronic record-keeping.

If you're referring to company-designed forms, in most cases we are not concerned with the format of the records, as long as all of the required data is present. If you are referring to FAA-designed forms, then the odds are very high that the forms are already available in an electronic format from the FAA. All you would have to do is download the forms and incorporate them into your system.

I hope this helps,

Ric

Re: OT: Electronic Forms

Pete Plummer

>Dominic,

Look into Adobe Acrobat Professional - it should meet your needs. You can design your form in Word, Excel, Illustrator, Corel Draw - publish as pdf and then using Acrobat play around with the fields.

The other advantage to Acrobat is that anybody will be able to work with the form.

Peter

Re: Thanks Ellis,....but

Bob Fawcett

>Dominic,

These are FAA required forms. You cannot afford to lose them. If you have no budget you cannot create a system with suitable backup procedures.

I would not entrust this data to a Word or Excel document.

This could probably all be implemented with free software. MySQL to store the data and some Perl scripts to manipulate the WEB front end. I still would not risk FAA data to a "project" that has no budget.

30 years FAA, retired.

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>I was in Air Traffic. We didn't do forms. Well, actually, there was plenty of staff support, and they did a lot of paperwork. Operationally, however, we didn't do much.

Where are you?

Rod

Re: 30 years FAA, retired.

Ric Taylor

>I was in Air Traffic for four years, then got smart and moved over to Flight Standards, where I have been for 21 years. I have 33 years credit towards retirement, but I'm not ready to quit yet.

Re: 30 years FAA, retired.

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>> …but I'm not ready to quit yet.

That's because you're not in AT. Those guys are getting hammered pretty badly. I'd have been long gone by now if I wasn't already long gone (retired in '97).

Where are you? I started out at ZJX, then ORD, then ZAU.

Rod

Re: OT: Electronic Forms

Barry Irby

>I use An Adobe Acrobat form that is labled "fillable". It is identical to a FHA form (92051 I think). I down loaded it and use it to file housing inspection reports. The appearance is the same as the paper version, but the check boxes are "interactive" in several different ways. You can check and uncheck some, but some are "interlocked" with others so that when you check one, you uncheck another. The text boxes can "remember" anything that has been typed in them so if you start a sentence, the rest of it appears and you just hit "enter". Spell checker too. There are date fields that demand the date in a certain format. And more I can't think of. I did not create the form, but it is a pdf and allows for digital signatures. I could send you a copy. It must have been done in Adobe Pro or whatever.

Electronic Forms, create them with this freebie *LINK*

wudwork

>Dominic, I used Formtool years back and its primary selling point was ability to create identical forms. It is not a robust web application, but .... Tom


Formtool FREE download

Re: 30 years FAA, retired.

Ric Taylor

>I did four years of six-day work weeks at ZKC. My Flight Standards time has been at LAX and HOU.

some more advice FWIW

Joe Piotrowski - Chicago Burb's

>I design solutions for a living. that doesn't make the be all end all of knowledge. but I have been doing it for long time and most of the time it is always constrained by the tool sets available.

it's been a few years since I dealt in that kind of low end finical arena.

tell me the tools you have to work with and there versions. what restriction for installation you have and network environment.

a good solution is one that delvers on the balance of design vs Time and Money. I will help if I can.

Funny...

Tony - Memphis

>I can remember when I thought Formtool was REALLY something! And back then, it was all ASCII characters. Boy, things have changed in ten years! I get an email from a company called Nothing But Software and they sell a later version of it for a few bucks. haven't had a need for it, but its out there for cheap.

Tony