article "Scrape or Sand Floor"

Re: article "Scrape or Sand Floor"

bill tindall, E. TN

>There is not a simple answer to your question but to help me take a stab at it tell me about the need. Are you wanting to refinish a floor? Any idea what it is finished with (or if not, when it was last finished? Is the wood damaged, or just the finish?

I can say now that when a floor is typically refinished the first thing that is done is to grind away at it with what seems to be driveway rock glued on a sanding belt. This aggressive grit cuts through the finish without it balling up on the belt. Because the cut is so aggressive there is grave danger that the floor will not wind up smooth unless the person running the machine is experienced and lucky that day. Would I risk someone grinding away at my floor with this approach-NO. The alternatives depend on the current condition of the floor.

Re: article "Scrape or Sand Floor"

Rae

>Dear Mr. Tindall:

Thank you for your response.

Regarding my floor's finish; not sure but it's certainly varnish or urethane.

The floor's condition is very good except that the finish has worn off an area; finish is patchy with gray (light) bare wood (roughly 1 ft. square). The rest of the room's finish is scratched -- looks bad. (The room is about 150 ft sq.)

I read that if the bare wood is exposed that the entire floor must be finished and that is why I am considering undertaking this venture. Otherwise I would just strip and refinish the floor with tung oil.

Please advise.

Thx.

Rae

And speaking of misleading......

Andy Halterman: Equatorial winter weather

>since you like to use that word on occasion, I have to take exception with your description of what constitutes floor refinishing. Use of the "gravel" paper, as we refer to it, is very rarely necessary to remove old finish. Very often one pass with 40 grit removes almost all of the old finish. Next pass would be with 50 or 60 depending upon what is necessary, finishing up with 80 grit. If a floor finisher is taking off more than about 3/32 on a sanding job, something is not right. There are situations where a more aggressive approach is required. It's situationally dependent, not an every time deal. Experience and one's willingness to pay attention to the details is far more important than this "luck" that you refer to. Maybe you have had bad experiences in the past but I don't think it wise to paint with such a broad brush.

By the way, I like the kitchen canisters.

Andy Halterman

Setting the record straight in Hendersonville, NC�

Re: And speaking of misleading......

bill tindall, E. TN

>Apparently floor finishers are all more experienced and skilled in your area. The use of hardwood flooring has grown beyond the abilities of many people to adequately install it in this and my brother's (he is a contractor) area. As a result most jobs don't suite me, with refinishing jobs being the most risky to undertake.

I will offer the most egregious example. We helped supply custom 5" rift cut white oak flooring for a job under contract with one of the area's best contractors, who in turn subed the floor installation and finishing to one of the better flooring contractors (apparently with a less experienced crew). The first few runs of floor had 1/16" cracks, which they attributed to bad flooring which is where I got involved. The real problem was that they didn't own a nail set. The hand installed nails in the first few runs were not set and they had beat the tounges and grooves to splinters trying to pull the white oak up on the unset nails. A less egregious example is my ash flooring. The best sander in the area did it but spent too long on it with the screen. As a result the soft grain structures are more cut than the hard grain. Annoying by not fatal. So one needs to be lucky with even the best workers. I could go on and on.

Perhaps you could offer Rae some useful advice to go along with my warning of bad things that can happen (based on my limited experience).

What you describe.......

Andy Halterman: Equatorial winter weather

>has nothing to do with luck, Bill. Zippo, nada.

Not setting nails is dumb, plain dumb. I learned that lesson the hard way. The scooping you describe can easily be prevented by using a hard plate or a double sided sanding disc in place of a screen. Both of those are simple, readily available options for use at any time. Both have limitations though. You can't use them on a stained floor without them leaving marks. As far as your brother goes, is he willing to pay for perfection? Are his subfloors perfectly flat and level prior to the installation of flooring? Most GCs don't want to pay and the framing lumber we have to deal with now has it's own set of issues. If he or any other GC isn't willing to cough up the bucks for all that, who is to blame when there are issues? The house starts with the foundation and then the framing. If those aren't right, what else will be? Then we can talk about the available flooring out there. I ain't what it used to be. No where close. Between the bad drying practices and all the defects they allow these days, it really makes things exciting in all the wrong ways.

I'm not taking exception to your advice for Rae. It's good advice. In his case it makes good sense. I don't have anything further to offer him with regards to his questions. Furthermore, this one isn't about Rae. My comments are directed at you and only you. I take exception to your blanket statements about folks who do the work I do. Not all of us are hacks who rely on "luck" to do our jobs. Mistakes happen. It's a constant struggle to keep things going well. I work at it all the time. I don't have the luxury of total control of the jobsite. I have to work within the confines of the situation. I try very hard to do the absolute best work I can with what I have to work with. Unlike some people, I honor my warranty (excluding one incident where my client tried to rewrite the contract after the fact). I'm also smart enough to build a cushion into every job that makes it possible for me to do so and not take a beating. Are my jobs perfect? I doubt it. Perfection is an elusive query. I can tell you I get darn close on a fairly consistent basis. That's all I can really hope for. Maybe when they start growing the perfect tree.........

I suppose if you wish to continue we need to move this to email.

Now, I really gotta get to work.

Andy Halterman

Feet firmly planted and not budging in Hendersonville, NC�

After some thought......

Andy Halterman: Equatorial winter weather

>I do have something to offer you.

Bill's idea of scraping my be just the trick you need to spot finish your bad area. If it's confined to a small location, I think that would be a good way to proceed. You may want to do a final hand sanding of the area because sometimes the wood will take finish/colors differently depending on whether it's scraped or sanded. Perhaps a trial run on some scraps would be in order.

I'm sorry to hijack your thread with the other stuff.

Good luck with your project.

Andy Halterman

Home for a quick bite in Hendersonville, NC�