WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

Re: I debated with myself over this.

Posts

Re: I debated with myself over this.

#1

Re: I debated with myself over this.

I thought long and hard over submit this, but in the end I felt it was a point of view that should be shared, (especially after reading Barb S.'s post). This was forwarded to me from a friend, I removed all of the e-mail addresses but copied the text as I received it. (Ellis if this is not suitable you can remove it, and I will understand)

oh I'm leaving out the Dali Lama's letter

> Dear friends and family,

>

> Below, you will find a letter from the Dalai Lama

> and a letter from an Afghani-American writer, as well

> as personal thoughts of the person who sent this along. I send it

> in the hope that it will give you another small piece to add to the

> dialogue of these deep times.

>

> Aloha nui loa,

> Barbara

>

>

> Dear Friends,

> The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is

> an Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant

> people I know in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks,

> I listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are

> in.

> -Gary T.

>

> *******************

> Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:

>

> I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to

> the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that

> this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do

> with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral

> damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit

> discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

>

> And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I

> am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years

> I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell

> anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

>

> I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no

> doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity

> in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

>

> But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even

> the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant

> psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a

> political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis.

> When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the

> people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

> It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to! do with this

> atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would

> exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear

> out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

>

> Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban?

> The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated,

> suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there

> are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no

> economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has

> been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered

> with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These

> are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown

> the Taliban.

>

> We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone

> Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it

> already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level

> their houses? Don. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done.

> Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure?

> Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone

> already did all that.

>

> New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at

> least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the

> Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip

> away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled

> orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs.

> But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike

> against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would

> only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again

> the people they've been raping all this time

>

> So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak w!

> ith true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go

> in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly

> to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the

> belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any

> moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out

> of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not

> just because some Americans would die fighting their way through

> Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that

> folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go

> through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of

> Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand

> by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between

> Islam and the West.

>

> And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he

> wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements.

> It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west.

> It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world

> into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west

> wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with

> nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of

> view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever

> that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would

> die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden

> does. Anyone else?

>

> Tamim Ansary

>

>

Re: Re: I debated with myself over this.

#2

Re: I debated with myself over this.

Thanks, Gary, for the post. Much of what we've been hearing and reading about bombing the Afghans is simply talk. That reaction is common during times of stress. Our Governmental leaders, both elected and appointed, do not talk that way. Listen carefully to what is being said out of Washington; there is little in the way of specifics. That is how it should be. The other is a reaction and only a reaction to the WTC tragedy. Very few responsible "pundits" talk that way.

Re: Re: I debated with myself over this.

#3

Re: I debated with myself over this.

Robert, I agree with what you just said. I just felt a need to put forth a point of view that I hadn't heard much of publicly. Thanks for your comments.

glc

Re: Re: I debated with myself over this.

#4

Re: I debated with myself over this.

No, you are correct to put it in. The letters to Time, Newsweek, et al, the Milw JournalSentinel, and so on, are full of this kind of venting. Some poeple, unfortunately, have attacked Muslims and Mosques. The other day Milw had to guard the local south side Muslim school and Mosque after bomb threats. After all, we did react that way during WWI with "Victory Cabbage" instead of Sauerkraut and the targeting of those of German heritage. The same thing happened during WWII with the Japanese, Italians, and Germans. No, it is a legitimate worry and we must be on constant guard against unreasoning reaction. (Understand, I am NEVER guilty of that!!)

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.