>I don't think that we are really disagreeing. I am probably not stating what I meant to say very well. I realize that power tools are extremely accurate, but, as you mentioned, I am not after absolute accuracy, but rather to make something fit. For me, this is easier to get with a simple hand tool that a power tool. In this case, the accuracy of the power tool is not really being used to best advantage. I am normally not trying for interchangeable parts.
I do consider the Leigh jig as a power tool because it uses the router and represents a system. I could also say that a unisaw is a jig and not a power tool because all it does is fixture the blade and the blade and arbor are the power tool, not the saw system. ;-)
For me, there is also the aesthetic part of it. I just enjoy using a well made and tuned up hand tool. No real justification other than it gives me pleasure ;-)
>You're right, it wouldn't be trivial; but it also wouldn't be all that hard for a good sawyer with a good saw. And 3/16" is a bit thick for most veneer. With a little luck I could probably do this on a bandsaw, but I'd expect overrun at the base. Radial arm saw? I don't think so. Table saw with tenon cutter? Sure, but setting up the tenon cutter is non-trivial.
>I'm sure we are mostly on the same page. I still think there is a diference between a jig and a tool though it may not be the kind of thing that con actually be proven, say, topologically. In that field I think they claim one does not wear a shirt over one's body, because of how it can be removed. Things are open to interpretation. But unisaw seems different to me from a jig. A leigh jig is designed to use a router, but it isn't a router. the jig is the part designed to make dovetails pretty much exclusively. A finger joint jig on a unisaw is a way of converting one of the most versatile tools in a shop into a single purpose thing, if not permanently. The conceptual underpinings of the Legh jig could be adapted to hand tools, basically morphing the spacing and fitting features to the LV magnetic dovetail jig.
>In most instances setting up the tenon cutter is probably no more time consuming that lay-out. In my case I usually can't find the saw for clutter; Then there is normally a part I need, like the wrench for changing router bits, that I can't find; then there is a bushing I can't find; and so it goes. So I got rid of my table saw altogether, though I did buy two for 65 bucks last year or so, neither is currently installed. This summer I was using my dads, and sorta enjoying it, though generally I find them very unfun to use. A good video for a view on how to set one up is Klauzs video on tenons. He had a sliding TS jig that looked easy. And if he felt it was faster than hand sawing he probably shas the time sheets to prove it.
I think this stuff sucks for amateurs because jigs take up huge space, and normally look rather ugly the 99.9% of the time one isn't using them collecting dust etc... But they make sense for a pro who can aford some splace if it makes money and doesn't like me have a ridiculous variety of interest that seems to grow all the time, and that no shop could too easily accomodate.
around 23:50. By the way I have the mortiser shown just before it.
The transitional tools are kinda interesting. What do they say? Where they only used to get unskilled workers in harness? Or do they show that even amoung a highly skilled hand tool culture some jobs were so laborious that they cried out for automation. There is little doubt that power tools are always faster for this kind of stuff. Even non-powered tools look comparatively fast. Compare this tool to the process Roy shows for making the 28 tenons in the Montecello book stand earlier in the season. The transitional tools have features we seem to like: They don't have rotary cutters as often as today; aren't as noisy as power tools we buy today in post electric motor days; and they are actually designed to make quality furniture joints.
>I think for many operations, it's easier to do one or two of any individual detailing operation by hand. For large numbers, machinery makes it easier. I think many of you are in agreement. An S-shaped chamfer? Easy... give me a big enough chamfering bit, and a pattern to follow to determine how deeply into the wood I'm going. But I do need to do all the setting up work first. For a batch of these, it's worth the time in the setup. For one or two, not at all.
But one of the things I've noticed, following this thread... most of the places where machines are used the most are in production shops, so the opportunity to play creatively with the machines like we can with hand tools isn't there. They jig up for a given operation, and run it. And while that's great, there's not a lot of "playtime." When was the last time your boss walked into your place of employment, and said, "you know... I want you to take a while this weel, start screwing around, and think of the number of alternate ways you can do something we're already finished doing, and in a creative manner." Sometimes they do this, if they plan on doing it again, and it took too long last time, but generally the process of experimenting and playing around with stuff is lost. And most business types that I've met or heard of are more interested in getting things done yesterday than they are in indulging creative, thinking employees. (Toyota is one notable exception, but I'm sure that even they have their limits.)
By contrast, I think there's a lot of room to play with hand tools. A) they're cheaper, and therefore easier to afford for those who aren't doing it full time, and B) sometimes it's a while before you get down to your final shape or dimension, so every cut is an opportunity to get a better handle on how the tool is working. Lastly is C)... A hand tool operation is set up for every piece. A machine tool operation is set up once for every batch... so the opportunities to learn, alter, and improve, are fewer, if you want to work efficiently.
Tenons can be cut on band saws, in several different ways on table saw, with numerous router jigs...
I realize this is the hand tool board. And I'm obviously a believer in the virtues of hand tools. But I've come to a point in my work, such as it is these days, where I think that the final swipe, scrape, notch, or whatever, is the work for hand tools... and the rough shaping is for power tools. But my ability to shape things on machine is always growing, and getting more and more accurate all the time.
Part of that, of course, is because my collection of store bought and hand made jigs is also growing.
But even still. I started the wood-purist, machine vs hand tool debate in my head years ago. And the best solution I've come up with is a hybrid one, where the true artisan puts every tool he has access to to it's best and most efficient practical use. In machine terms, everything is basically a motor with a cutting thingy attached to the end of the shaft... and a lot of jiggery around it. But the wide variety of machines that have evolved as a result is astounding. And the methods of work that have evolved is similarly amazing. But it hasn't eliminated the need for hand tools... it just complements them very well.
>Oh, I just enjoy layout and tool using/maintenance to jig making/storing/power tool maintenance. Besides that, there's no economy to buying power tools without piles of business to service the debt/opportunity cost.
I loved that final segment of Woodwright, thanks for pointing that out.