Dove tails???????

Too old...

John in NM

Router jigs are old school

Re: Dove tails???????

William Duffield

Most of them are really ugly. You can alleviate that to some extent by buying a really expensive jig, but they sill look like they were punched out by an automaton. The expensive jigs are also a bit difficult to learn to operate. Who's going to help you learn to do them that way? The Leigh manual, for example, is over an inch thick.

The router also blows very fine dust all over the shop, and into your lungs, and the noise it makes is damaging to your hearing. Usually, you are also running a dust collector at the same time, for even more decibels.

Sure, you can make counterarguments against hand cut dovetails, but a lot of us think they are more fun to make and show off.

Re: Too old...

Dave Bair

Not if you're doing a kitchen with 24 drawers! A cheapo, generic dovetail jig was a life saver.

That was...

John in NM

Just my weird sense of humor, don't put too much stock in anything I say!

Honest answer....

John in NM

Machine cut dovetails don't get discussed much because there's nothing much that goes wrong with them. Easy to do and just not a lot of mysteries in them - that's why they're great for doing a kitchen full of drawers.

You can even order pre-made parts with the dovetails already cut and just do the assembly - knew a couple guys in Tucson who did that. They didn't want to tool up for the occasional kitchen job and have to find somewhere to keep the tools and stuff when they worked on other stuff like a house full of doors or a big furniture job.

Re: Honest answer....

Buck Nall

Thanks John, course that hellish price for a 24'' jig

probably figures in there too!

Re: Honest answer....

Barry Irby

I have two DT jigs, an old Stanley jig I got about fifty years ago and a 24" Leigh jig I have had for maybe twenty years. You are correct, the price is hellish. Not only is there the jig, there are lots of bits and I got two routers that are dedicated for the purpose. The Idea was to take some of the fiddling out of the setup process. Did not exactly work out. It seems I seldom use the same set up. Always switching stock thickness and type of DT. My jig is old enough that it has the narrow fingers and they tend to move no matter how tight you make those tiny screws, especially in heavy stock. I make drawers with it, but my favorite use for it is assembling carcasses. I just built a 7' long entertainment center for my son and a toy box for my grandson.

Once in a while I get out the old Stanley version and make tiny DT's with it.

About two years ago I decided I would learn to make hand cut dovetails. I figured all it really took was practice. And more Practice. Practice, practice, practice. So I was going to cut a set of DT's everyday until I got good. I tried to sharpen an old saw I had. Bought a marking gauge. Went and bought a new saw. So far, I have made two practice joints. They are pretty bad, maybe suitable for a packing crate. Maybe this is the year...

A huge subject...

John in NM

I'm afraid I'm a bit too philosophical to say anything usefully short about it but I'll try.

The ugliest (or more accurately, the least fashionable) dovetail is still a perfectly useful and strongly made joint. Cut them by machine, by hand, loose or tight, however the mood takes you, it doesn't really matter much. It will still be holding a box or case together long after fashion has changed and the current purveyors of the current flavor of it are long dead and forgotten.

Fashion is a useful inspirational tool, but I've found it wise to keep it in check too. There is a fine line between being inspired and discouraged, and I find that the huge quantity of inspiration to be found on the internet more often leads to discouragement.

That is why I value irony - its the only way to enjoy the contradictions I find in every corner of life rather than to be frustrated by them

24" Jig

Yonak

It would be rare to need to do a drawer that's more than 12" deep. I would think a 24" dovetail jig would not get used much, unless one is looking for creative applications.

Finger joints are useful for long interlocking joints.

Re: 24" Jig

Buck Nall

Yeaw I got a 12'' had it fer decades, jewelry boxes, etc small stuff,

but I love building blanket chest & want the 24 for those corners,

yeaw I kno probably could use 16 but aint gonna, want 24.

Oh, build'm with aromatic cedar, been thinking bout using some actual

red cherry lumber thats been under shelter 10 -15 yrs and line botttom

& ends with some purchased cedar to keep the bugs away.

Yall have a goodern

P.S. Ellis never imagined I would get so much interest here.

A bit too Rustic

Yonak

I understand your objective, Buck but, for me, I find the look of interlocking joints too rustic .. too revealing .. for my taste in furniture. I realize tastes are like opinions .. everybody has one so, it's strictly mine.

Re: 24" Jig

John in NM

I know you don't want to use 16" - but I'll just add a point to think about. Most chair seats are ~17-18" off the floor. I have an old pine crate of my mother's that we use as a blanket chest, its 20" tall and about as high up as is comfortable for me to sit on (and I'm 6' tall so I don't mind taller seats).

So if you did settle for a 16" jig, it would probably be just about right for chests, as most of them seem to be seat height. Add some skirt molding to the bottom or a padded top and you don't even need to use the whole width of the jig.

But go with the 24" if you really want to, the one time you need it, you're sure going to be glad you bought that one

Re: That was...

John K Jordan

>>>Just my weird sense of humor, don't put too much stock in anything I say!

NOW you tell me! I follow every word you say. Sometimes take notes.

JKJ

Re: 24" Jig

Buck Nall

Good info for a little box, ones' I make R placed at foot

of bed, so being a 24 gives plenty room for getting shoes on

storing bed covers, hiding precious from kids * nosy

neighbors & kin, etc.

Hahaha!

John in NM

Send me your notes, I'll publish them and set up as the next Dave Barry! Or Red Green....

Maybe the reason I never made it as a humorist is that I could never commit to a flavor, eternally waffling between Dave and Red!

Re: 24" Jig

Brad Chenoweth

I've never used one, only seen them demonstrated at shows, but I seem to recall that the Keller through-dovetail jig can be used for any length of dovetailed panel, just by moving the jig. Again, no personal experience.

Re: 24" Jig

Pat Evans

The first project for which I needed a dovetail jig required a 24" jig. I got the PC Omnijig. It works fine for all pieces up to 24". On smaller pieces the top clamp pressure tends to be uneven due to the length of the bar, but there are workarounds for that.

Another honest answer

Jack Dover

Mine started to come out okay-ish somewhere after ~50 attempts. Or more. I'm yet to dovetail a perfect drawer or a case, there's always a noticeable screw up in a visible location.

It started getting better, or rather I gained some hope after I've stopped building things for a bit and just went into my shop every evening exercise for an hour. Used up all suitable scraps and was just dovetailing pieces together. At some point practice pieces didn't have gaps, so I though I've got it, but then I changed wood and it was back to square one. I made it a habit now to make a few tries on offcuts of a current project, this seems to bring a number of unhappy accidents down somewhat. Now I'm trying to figure the fastest way of marking them up with desired proportions. It takes me about 40 mins to do layout, and most of the time I mess around trying to figure spacing and sizing. I'm also continue doing sawing exercises, really want to get to a point where they come together off the saw and I don't have to pare anything at all, which seems to be the biggest time sink and the source of screw ups.

About a saw: apparently, all those gent saws in 25-30$ range are really great dovetailing saws once you figure how to touch them up with a file. People say they're slow, which they are being 15-20ppi . Which also makes them somewhat a challenge for someone just starting with hand tools maintenance. But there are a few "buts": but if you move a saw faster they're cutting fast, got to get used to it. They track absolutely straight, even inexpensive imported saws (Big Horn, Crown, etc) don't have any problems with set. They're thin plated, same thickness as regular Japanese saws, which kinda helps a beginner, even though a kerf width doesn't really matter, a set does. If I'd take that Frank Klausz's video seriously back then I'd probably never spent all those money on other saws and maybe my dovetailing would be way better today.