Jointer Bearing Questions

Re: Jointer Bearing Questions

Grant in Iowa

Barry,

If the machine makes noise on shut down, it might be the bearings as you surmise, or it might just need the belts tightened. Check the simple stuff first. While you are at it, remove the belt(s) and spin the cutter by hand and listen.

If you need bearings, I can tell you that you are better off sourcing the bearings from a local bearing store, rather than via the manufacturer. This is because the factory bearings are generally not on par with your average Timken or other industrial supplier product. Put the question to your bearing supplier. Take the bearings with you so they can get you the right replacement part. They may also offer a press service to remove and replace them. If not, a local automotive machine shop can do the bearing swap quickly and correctly.

On the spiral cutter head, I have limited knowledge. I do know that they are not all created equal. Some have the segmented cutters arranged in a helix, while the face of those cutters still are perpendicular to the work piece. This arrangement is less desirable than having the cutter faces arranged in a helix with their cutter edges also in a helix. The latter makes more of a slicing cut, and generally works better. Or so I've read somewhere.

Regards,

Grant in Iowa

Re: Jointer Bearing Questions

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Bearings are easy

Looked into a spiral cutterhead for my Delta 190. Cutter head costs almost as much as the machine. On a 6" jointer I've lived without and will continue to do so. The Performax remedies all torn grain

Re: Jointer Bearing Questions

Barry Irby

I too remedy torn grain with the Performax.

And I noticed the cost of the cutter head was more than I paid for the machine. Of course, I am not enough of an economist/mathematician to equate 1972 dollars to 2015 dollars. Even so, the idea of paying more for a part than the whole bothers me.

Come to think of it, my Beismeyer Fence would have cost more than I paid for my Delta Rockwell Contractor saw in 1972, but I bought it for $80 from Lowe's when they got out of the business. My kinda deal.

Wonder where to look for s cheap spiral cutter head?

Re: Jointer Bearing Questions

John McGaw

Obviously a moving part but which one? I'd take out the belt and 'feel' the rotation of the head manually and then do the same for the motor. Quite often a bad bearing will reveal itself with a simple manual spin. Of course it might be a 'lump' or set spot in the belt but that isn't easy to detect without powering on. I had a similar noise problem with the TS portion of my Robland X31 and it turned out to be a belt failing.

I've looked at the cost of spiral cutterheads and quickly decided that anything like that was out of the question unless my shop became a money-making proposition (which it never will).

Don't neglect the belt, motor, and motor mount

Dick Coers

The sheet metal bases can amplify sounds. Take off the belt and run the motor before going after the bearings.

Re: Don't neglect the belt, motor, and motor mount

Barry Irby

Can you replace motor Bearings?

Re: Don't neglect the belt, motor, and motor mount

pecker

When my jointer sounded like that it was just the pulley set screw and key had come loose. The pulley was working it's way off the motor shaft.

Re: Don't neglect the belt, motor, and motor mount

AZ in Colorado Springs

A couple of years ago I took my TS motor into the repair shop 'cause it wouldn't start. They cleaned out a ton of sawdust (I now have a compressor to do this) and along the way noticed a bearing starting to go. They replaced both bearings for seemingly pennies extra since much was already apart.

So, yeah, motor bearings can be replaced. Not sure its a DIY job, though.

Estate Sales

Re: Don't neglect the belt, motor, and motor mount

walta

In my opinion any sealed bearing over 20 years old is bad and should be replaced noisy or not.

I say replace both cutter bearing and both motor bearing and be done with it.

I want to be sure everyone understands the grease in the bearings has turned into waxy rocks after 20 years that’s what you can hear and feel with bad bearings.

If you continue to use the machine at some point the bearing will seize often the machine will still operate with a seize bearing now the shaft is spinning inside the bearing race, the bearing is harder than the shaft so slowly the shaft will be ground away. Now when you try to replace the bearing it will not stay on the smaller shaft. Often the shaft must be replaced as repairs are difficult and expensive.

A pair of bearing generally cost only a few dollars but a replacement cutter head will cost a few hundred. I think of them as cheap insurance.

Walta

What is the attraction of a spiral cutterhead....

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

.....on a jointer. It is unlikely that many here have run more lumber across a jointer than I have. I have seldom, actually not in memory, seen any need for a spiral head cutter. By feeding the optimum direction and feeding slowly when necessary I don't get tear-out on board edges. Disclaimer: Except for an occasional use of mahogany the lumber I use is local to the Appalachian Mts. I never work curly hard maple. For the run of the mill oak, maple, walnut, cherry, ash, poplar and the like I don't have any problem with a straight cutter head.

Now it may be that somewhere outside of my experience this cutter head is advantageous. So for those that think they need this feature, or those that have bought it, where has it proven to do something that a conventional jointer cutter head doesn't.

On a planer I have seen two advantages. At least on a large industrial machine the planed surface can be so smooth that one can not see planer marks and initial sanding could be as fine as 150 or 180. And, for those without on-board sharpening the insert bits provide easy "sharpening". And of course on the rare occasions where depth of cut and feed direction will not eliminate tear-out the spiral cutter head likely will yield a tear-out free surface (I am told).

I have put tens of thousands of bdft of Appalachian hardwoods through an 18" Powermatic with onboard sharpening capability and variable infeed rate. A spiral cutter head was never worth the money in my situation for the incidence of tear-out is minor. (I am planing predominantly FAS1F and BTR grade of lumber. Planing lower grade lumber could present more problems with the greater incidence of knots).

Spiral cutter heads

mdclor

Barry, I have a Grizzly G0490X which is an 8" jointer with a spiral head. I think the spiral head with carbide cutters is a great innovation. There is much less tear out, they are quieter, they mean no more having to sharpen blades or install blades and they leave a better finish meaning less sanding (Yea!). Yes, a new head might cost more than the jointer did originally, but in early 1972 gold was $35/ounce vs today's price of $1100. I wouldn't buy a jointer without a spiral head if I ever had to replace mine.

Re: What is the attraction of a spiral cutterhead.

David Yoho

I replaced the original cutterhead on my 8" Delta Professional Jointer years ago when the income from customer jobs paid the bill. It was THE best investment I could have made. I no longer worry about feed direction, knots, or figured lumber. No more sharpening jointer blades, even though I'm equipped to do so. Just turn the carbide inserts to the next edge and get back to work. I've had nothing tear out since. The results are smooth and clean.

I'm using a Byrd head. In my opinion it doesn't makes sense for anything under an 8". I don't think I would spend the big money to convert a 6" machine, unless there was a very compelling reason for it.

Spiral Cutter Recommendation

Dave Bair

I got my head from Grizzly for my JET 6"er. Grizzly sells several versions, I bought the cheapest. It's quieter, requires less feeding force, and I'll never spill another drop of blood re-setting blades in a seemingly endless round of adjustments.

good comparison

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I have the same jointer.

" I no longer worry about feed direction, knots, or figured lumber. No more sharpening jointer blades, even though I'm equipped to do so. The results are smooth and clean. "

I do have to worry about grain direction and go slow over areas near knots and figure. I have no occasion to ever joint a knot. I replace blades with sharpened ones every few years and it takes awhile to do so. I have two sets so one is in reserve as needed. I will never in a life time wear out two sets. Similarly my results are also smooth and clean for the wood I work.

The improvement would appear to be in convenience not results, at least for edge jointing typical Appalachian hardwoods. Other woods may well be different.

PS

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

My point is not to be critical of someone who has bought a spiral cutter head. Rather, anyone considering such a purchase should have comparison data. If someone is having trouble jointing typical hardwood an improvement in their technique could solve their problem at no expense. If changing knives is difficult on the machine they own then the expense of the insert head may be worth it to them, for example.

I agree

David Yoho

Jointing typical hardwoods was never really a problem for me. My Tormec system did a great job on my blades, which didn't take that long to remove, sharpen, reinstall, and adjust. I used the standard blade cutterheads in my various jointers for many years without too many problems.

Once I moved into dressing mostly rough lumber and started using more figured stock, I decided the Byrd head would make a big difference and it did. I could dress rough stock much faster and didn't worry about tear out with the figured stuff.

Your point is well taken, though. There's no substitute for a properly adjusted jointer with sharp knives and using the right feed technique. Any one of those not right can spell poor results.

Re: Why not a breaker?

TomD

There are breakers on jointers they are not fine set. Things that make you go Hmm... Assuming one wanted to get better results than one normally can

The WORD!

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

is "replace" as in the whole machine!

Sell the old jointer and then buy a new 8" (10-12) machine with a spiral head. There's somebody around who'd like a good deal on a well-kept 6" jointer. After 40 years, what you get for it is found money as it doesn't owe you a dime. Then have that new iron delivered and enjoy.

Re: The WORD!

Barry Irby

You are correct. I might do this if I get a Blast of Cash. A Windfall. A bigger wad of found money. I have two or three things going on that might produce such fruit. (Anyone want to buy a "fixer upper" house I got at foreclosure? Or 7.32 acres I got at a tax sale? Excellent deals available.)

Still, I hate to sell my old friend. It was the "best" of the four original tools I bought for my shop. And I still wish I had more shop space. (If one of those deals above REALLY comes through maybe I can do that too.)

Re: What is the attraction of a spiral cutterhead.

Larry Clinton At Frankfort, (Central) Indiana

Bill, when I replaced my 6" joiner with an 8" Grizzly with the carbide inserted spiral cutter head, I did so for a couple of reasons. The 6" did a decent job, but I use a lot (most of my wood) of home sawn Amish air dried wood. Some of this is somewhat bowed, although most is as good or better than my local sawmill. When straightening out some longer section of bowed boards I had to remove enough material that I neared my finish dimension. The straight knives were particular about feed direction, and also did tear out certain woods with wild grain, sometimes to the point that I could not maintain the thickness I wanted after removing the tear out.

I am anal about machine setup, and it did take some time and frustration when replacing the straight blades and getting the height set properly (blades moved when final tightening - may have been due to the Grizzly blade clamping method.

Also had a couple of instances when a foreign object nicked my straight blades and required replacement to get rid of the line left on boards due to the nick. The carbide inserts eliminate all of these problems for me. If an insert is damaged, all I have to do is rotate it 90% and no issue. I can feed from either direction with no problems.

By the way I have the Grizzly spiral cutter head on my Joiner, and the Byrd cutter head on my 20" stationary planer, I cannot tell any difference in quality of cut between the two.

I Talked Me In Tuit

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Posted my 37-190 (in pristine shape BTW) in the classifieds

I'm with Mark

Keith Newton

I wouldn't waste my money on it, then still only have 6" of surfacing capacity. If your shop can't handle a bigger jointer, I would recommend getting a big power-plane. You probably got some nice wide boards out of that salvaged tree, that it would be a shame to have to rip down, just to run over your narrow jointer.

With the large power plane, you can easily make multiple passes on big beams, too large for the smaller stationary tools. Even with my 12" jointer, I still find lots of times I'd rather use my Makita 1806, to flatten large heavy beams.

Re: lines

TomD

I have never really worried about the line or two, but you can offset the blades without changing them to get rid of it.