>I am looking seriously at building a bowl lathe since bowl turning is where my interest lies, not in spindles. Plus I have a small lathe I can do spindles on.
My only concern is lack of a tail stock. I could design a lathe and build a tail stock but suddenly it looses a lot of advantages because of the precision required with a tail stock and getting to align correctly. Without the tail stock it is simple fab work, no really accuracy required and can be built very reasonably.
I know you can work without a tail stock and have done it many times. Sometimes I just feel safer with it there. Plus no tail stock limits some of your chucking options too.
I am curious how more experienced turners feel about this? I have been looking seriously at a old Delta/Rockwells, Powermatics ect. with outboard spindle turning capability and just can't decide which way to go.
I just read Bens posts on his Powermatic with riser blocks and that looks like a good option too. I am just very undecided on what I want to do. Discussion would be most welcome!
SIDE NOTE: I was a mechanical designer in a past life so the design is pretty straight forward for me. And I can fabricate it myself if I practice my welding.
>Check out Eduardo's (from Peru - sorry if I butchered your name) lathe that he built. It's got to he the best home built job I've seen by far. I don't have the link to his web site, but there is a photo there.
>One of the guys in our club is going through a like situation. He is building a lathe that he can sit at, due to feet problems. He is adding a tail stock using a similar method that the VB36 employs. Two large round bars that hold the sliding tailstock. The bars are one above the other and anchored to the "headstock". Once the tailstock is aligned, they will be anchored in place.
I would think you would want a tailstock, if you are roughing out large bowls. Even if the bearings will take the lateral load, thats asking a lot of the wood. I still remember Ellsworth's Tips for Turners, where he stresses using faceplates and the tailstock.
>I like a tailstock to first align the bowl and then for safety when roughing it. If that's all you do then it doesn't have to be very accurate only solid. Accuracy comes in when you use it to return the bottom or sometimes for reverse turning. John
>I disagree. If the tail stock is not center with the spindle then you will be trying to to move one or the other. Using a spur drive and a tailstock would not be to big an issue. But with a face plate and the stock mounted to it.... something is going to give if you start spinning that stock around an off center object. Might take a while to do any damage but you need to be really close to the same center line.
>I never use a tailstock for bowls. If I need to move things around for the best grain or whatever, I use wedges between the wood and the faceplate. It is much easier to get good flowing curves when you stand at the bottom of the bowl and look toward the rim. There is no way that I would put a tailstock on my VB36. When I need a tailstock I go to the other lathe. If I were hobby turning only then I might look at a sliding headstock lathe or a PM4224 but I think the best set-up is two lathes.....one of which should be a bowl lathe.
>After you pick up a beautiful bowl you were almost finished turning off the floor, or get back from the doctor/dentist who just stitched you up, will you discover the need for a tailstock while turning bowls. Faceplate, chuck or with spurs. Wood is wood and can have hidden flaws which turning tends to bring to light.
To me it is just a matter of safety. I use the tailstock whenever possible, and the cage on my PM3520. If it is not possible to use the tailstock if figure out a way to make it possible.
>When you turn without a tailstock you are out of the line of fire. I have had bowls to blow up due to flaws and I just watch them sail away from me like clay pidgeons. When I turn with a bed I am always more nervous because I am in the line of fire sometimes. There are no forces from the lathe that will send the bowl toward you if you are at the "tailstock" end of the lathe; all the forces are 90 degrees to the spindle, therefore the pieces go away from you. Once in a while the shop dog has to duck though.:)
>I urge you to use the tailstock when ever possible. Why??? It's a lot cheaper and less time consuming than a trip to the hospital emergency room. It has been over three weeks sense my accident, and three weeks sense I could work at my lathe.
>I'm going to agree with Terry -- sort of. Now, Terry is a pretty well known bowl guy, and I can't clain that yet, but if possible, I start EVERY bowl between centers.
Not because I think the thing will fly off or I'm scared of the process, but for achieving the most pleasing forms and best use of the figured wood. I'm picky about this, and I don't want to have to settle for a bowl that looks like "close -- but not quite". This is especially true of natural edge bowls.
I agree that you don't NEED a tailstock to make a bowl, but your chances of making a beautiful bowl are enhanced if you do. I've seen a lot of bowls that were "swing ... and a miss !" bowls as far as my picky eyes were concerned, because some feature of the wood was out of balance. Not far enough out to look intentional, just enough to look unrefined, or unplanned. Then there are all the bowls that were so obviously turned out of a slab of wood, with all the 'grain' (figure) orientation chosen by the fellow at the sawmill. Unless it is the intended design, I don't want to look into a bowl and have all the figure and lines draw my attention to a small patch on one side of the bowl, and we have all seen a LOT of bowls like this. They're perfectly good, useable bowls, but not the highest form of the craft.
I also note that Terry does orient the bowl and wood figure with wedges between bowl and faceplate, so he's paying attention to these important design considerations, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable using this method. I think for most turners, a tailstock is a lot easier, and can be adjusted as needed as the design and the bowl blank develop.
I would also suggest that the accuracy of a tailstock on a dedicated bowl lathe doesn't have to be all that precise if the bowl is started between centers for best orientation. As stated elswhere in this thread, the tailstock does need to be accurate for supporting a blank held by a faceplate, but not if driven by a large spur center.
I'll agree with bowl turning it is more crucial although my old Delta was off by 1'8" or more and never had a problem. I would have to tighten the tailstock frequently because it would bore a little hole. On spindle turning it didn't make any difference at all. I used that lathe for almost 5 years and turned a lot of bowls. The only time it was a problem was when I started doing segmented bowls and boxes with multiple parts. I would use the tailstock for alignment and that's when I discovered it had problems. That was a looong time ago. Now I check everything and try to keep them in line.
>Terry, I don't understand. When you are doing the side of a bowl, are you standing in front of it? How do you stay out of the line of fire when working towards the base of the bowl?
>In my opinion it is a safety must for all but the largest pieces. I never use a faceplate except on bowls or platers larger than 24 in. I start all between centers, turn the outside and spigot. Then I reverse into a chuck and bring up the tailstock and finish the roughout down to a center shaft then cut it off.
With a tailstock you can hawg off or out the wood very fast and still be safe.
>As turners, we all have different ways of doing things. I turn on a Nichols bowl lathe. I have a tailstock but it's seldom mounted on the lathe. I do use the tailstock to turn part of the outside of a tall piece, and I sometimes use it if I'm setting up to turn a natural edge bowl. However, just about all of my turning is hollow forms, and unless I'm turning a deep one the tailstock stays off the lathe.
Some have mentioned the safety factor, line of fire, etc. There is some merit to that. However, since 1936 I've turned many, many hundreds of bowls and hollow forms, and I've yet to be whacked by a flying bowl. I've had blanks go flying, I've even had at least one break the tool rest, but it was deflected away from me.
John Nichols once told me that when he sells his custom lathes, most all of those sold in the East are ordered with tailstocks. Most of those sold in the West are ordered without. He has no idea why.
>I shape the outside of a bowl while standing facing the headstock from the bottom of the bowl. I turn from the base to the rim, moving my tool in the direction of rotation, thus what would be a catch merely throws the tool out of the wood instead. When turning this way there are no catches so the only bowls that come apart are those that have voids or inclusions, etc. When one does blow up the pieces fly away from me. The only thing a guard is good for is to catch a chunk of wood that is flying away from you and return it to your face.
>You guessed it....it was while turning spindle orientation and I was standing in the line of fire. My dust hood was knocked off but no injuries. I say again, no hood, no guard, no safety equipment beats not standing in the line of fire. Centrifugal force will cause any wood that comes off to leave the lathe 90 degrees to the spindle. In my opinion, faceplate turning without a tailstock is the safest way to turn a bowl. The tailstock is needed for natural edge bowls if you want to balnace the grain and heighth of the sides, etc.
>When turning natural edge bowls where you want to balance the piece a tailstock is needed. I do not make this type of turning. I turn regular bowl shapes and natural edge vases from burls and I want the top to be very uneven on the latter. In my opinion, a bowl lathe is not a replacement for the bed lathe; it is another tool that is very good and very fast at some things but it is not a lathe to do everything. A turning shop should have both. A hobby shop can make it fine with an outboard set-up on a bed type lathe. Factors that weigh in for the bowl lathe are: speed, safety, comfort, and especially graceful, flowing curves. I can shape the outside of a 4" x 12" bowl with nice flowing ogee cdurves in about 2 minutes. On a bed lathe that would take me about 10 minutes and the curves would not be as good.:)
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