removing stain from alcohol stock

Re: removing stain from alcohol stock

Ron in Drums PA

>The dark color won't hurt light woods.

I dried some holly recently and the stain was only on the surface.

Re: removing stain from alcohol stock

Gary in Zirconia, NC

>I put some Sassafras in dark alcohol and it stained on one side too deep to get it off.

I haven't figured that one out yet.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Jeff,

The alcohol does turn dark when soaking dark wood. How many bowls have you soaked in the solution? I am working on a method of determining the alcohol concentration of the solution using a weight ratio. Shawn in Idaho worked out the graph and table. I would be interested in your calculation of alcohol percentage using a draft of the procedure. Please email me if you are interested in trying it.

I recently soaked a vine maple bowl in an old container of alcohol which measured about 34% alcohol when I took the bowl out. The solution was very black in color but the wood appears to be unaffected. The piece is a closed form using the whole log and a rotted out limb as the opening. I am a little leery of removing the outer wrapping too soon because of the pith runs through the side of the bowl. I will be able to tell if the color has changed during the drying process when I unwrap it but it didn't seem to be discolored when I wrapped it. I hope this helps some.

I have soaked many pieces in dark colored alcohol and I have seen no discernible color change in light colored wood. I am sure there are possible exceptions. It will be useful to know what woods seem to have color changes when soaked in previously used alcohol. Like I need an other thing to track.

Good luck.

Dave Smith

A pleasant sunny Memorial Day in Longview, WA.

Re: removing stain from alcohol stock

JL

>You might try a filtration medium to entrap the tannins. I'll have to think about which one would be appropriate.

Re: I haven't figured that one out yet.

Gary Evans, Tallassee, TN

>Dave,

How about one bucket for dark wood and a separate one for white wood?

Gary

Re: I haven't figured that one out yet.

jeff jilg

>Dave - I'll be happy to try and measure the alcohol concentration.

Today I filtered the alcohol thru coffee filters - twice. It took a long time and none of the dark stain filtered out.

I am processing mesquite, and on many of the pieces there is light sapwood. When it comes out of the bath the sapwood is pretty dark. I sanded part of one piece today, which had been bathed 4 days ago. It is lighter underneath. However I would like to totally preserve the light color.

This week I am processing some mesquite burl slabs which have considerable light sapwood. The sapwood color needs to be maintained. So I may just get some fresh DNA to soak it in. However this could be expensive since there are 10 slabs total. The dark slab in this pic is from wax. It will be a shame to loose this contrast in the finished pieces.

What to do.....

Fining

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

You might try turning your attention to the wine making industry.

Take a small amount of your discolored alcohol and place it in a clear glass beaker, where it can be observed for any settling. If there is even slight settling of the colour fining methods can be employed. There are a number of fining powders available from your local wine making supplies.

When fining at home I use egg white. Mix egg white with a little water and poor it across the surface of the container of alcohol. As the egg white settles to the bottom it will take even the very smallest suspended particles with it.

If the colour is not of suspended particle form, it will be of chemical make up. In which case there will be a chemical clarifier. To know what that is, the exact chemical will need to be identified. As a makeshift solution, exposing chemical dye to sun light almost always yields results.

But I have great faith that your colour is of suspended form.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Fining

JL

>What he said! Anyway, I did some research on tannin removal. There are several commercially available products which remove tannins from water - they are not cheap! There are several type of filtration media which would work also - but they aren't cheap either. You could buy gallons of DNA for what you would spend cleaning up a few gallons. The egg white method is the least expensive for getting rid of the fines and suspended particles.

Other "cheap" things to try:

Diatomaceous earth (pool supply places have this) you can try making a filter system by getting a very fine mesh screen and placing the DE above it. Gravity feed or siphon to put the DNA through it.

Activated charcoal (pool supply places, aquarium stores) - filter system or just put the granular material in and strain it out.

BTW - I did a calculation as too how much it would cost with the "commercially available" resins and filtration media - it worked out to be about $56 for 5-8 gallons filtered - and that is depending on how much tannins are in it.

Re: Fining

jeff jilg

>Thanks for the advice so far.

One of the slabs is now a platter and needs to be processed. I'm out of time on that one. So in the interim I'll make a trip to 2 stores - one to buy more DNA and one to buy egg whites.

The slabs can't fit in my regular containers anyhow. The regular containers are 5 gallon buckets and the slabs/platters are up to 19" diameter. I might try to treat them individually in plastic bags, with shavings under the bags to conform to the shape. That might get the alcohol usage down to 1/2 gallon per platter.

Maybe that will be the cost of doing business to process these beautiful pieces of mesquite. I'll let you guys know if the egg white method works.

The diatomaceous (pool filter) method sounds time consuming - although I'm glad you suggested it. With the coffee filters, each one plugged up quickly from the fine wood particles. It took me about 3 hours (on and off) to strain 2.5 gallons. Very time consuming.

While filtering the DNA I also noticed an oily sheen on the surface. Probably oils extracted from the mesquite.

Since these pieces are being taken to final shape I am not doing my normal process of Anchorsealing. That would require returning, and the platters are going to warp. Plus the wax would get on some of the bark inclusions which I don't plan to remove. So the wax method can't really be used on these end-grain platters.

Re: Fining

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

I agree that the pool type filters will be a bit cumbersome. The pool industry does offer a liquid fining agent. It will simply be called "clarifier." It will work much the same as any fining agent, by taking fine particles with it as it settles.

If you want to go the filtration method, I would recommend looking into fish tank filters. For around $20 you will be able to get a small continuos running, magnetically driven, re-circulation filter and filter cartridges. These cartridges will be a mixture of filtering agents, you should chose those with the most charcoal. Such a filter can be hung on the side of your container and run overnight or until you have achieved the required end result.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Fining

jeff jilg

>Sam - that's a capital idea to use a powered aquarium filter. Thinking outside the box. I might try it.

So far I have seen little or no settling of the dye to the bottom of the mix. Even after it has sat for 2 days I can scoop a cupfull off the top and it's darker than coffee.

Today I bought another 2 gallons. And I'm soaking 2 finished platters. I made a bed of shavings for each. Then I laid a thick shower curtain liner in the bed and placed a platter in each one. The shavings were pushed up around the edges of the platters. About 1/3 gallon was poured into each. Then I twisted up the tops and tied them.

Prior to the procedure I checked the shower liners for leaks. 3 hours later they are still showing no leaks so at least I got that right! So far, so good.