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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

Good Hope Hardwoods - Walnut Slabs & Specialty Hardwood Lumber

Powder Metal Failure

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Powder Metal Failure

#1

Powder Metal Failure

Paul Coppinger

>While roughing a walnut log recently with my ASP 2060 Roughing Gouge, I had it extended too far over the tool rest and got a catch. It snapped the gouge off right at the handle. I called the vendor and spoke with a technician who indicated this is not uncommon with powder metal tools. He said that the extra edge retention came at the expense of extra brittleness (less grain structure) resulting in failures when subjected to extreme loads. He recommended a M2 tool, which will not hold an edge as long but is more forgiving. He also said the powder metal was not weld-able but that some folks had shaped a new tang on the gouge and refitted to a handle. After ordering a new M2 Roughing Gouge, I used a cut-off tool and disc grinder to cut and shape a new tang on the broken gouge so it would fit the old handle. After removing the broken tang from the old handle, I cut small grooves into the new tang and used epoxy to insure a solid fit in the handle. Now I have a more forgiving gouge for rough work and a powder metal gouge for final log shaping.

Paul Coppinger

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#2

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Paul,

I am going to ask the obvious question - for the edification of newer turners:

When you say you were roughing out a "Log", I trust that you were turning with it in "Spindle" (all side grain) orientation? Roughing gouges should never be used with wood in "Bowl" (sidegrain, endgrain, sidegrain) orientation. the encounter with the endgrain places too much stress on the roughing gouge, and usually results in accidents like yours.

Mark

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#3

Re: Powder Metal Failure

jeff jilg

>How in the heck did you get the old tang out of the handle? In my gouges from Crown and from the gouges I've seen from the manufacturers, they look like they are epoxied in. Wouldn't it be easier to just make a new handle, or cut the old one off where the tang ended? Kinda curious.

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#4

Re: Powder Metal Failure

John Lucas

>Jeff

Heat will soften epoxy and allow it to be pulled out quite easily. That being said I can make a new handle faster than I can mess around with getting a tang out of an old handle.

When I need to remove a tool from a handle I usually just clamp it in a vise and drive the handle off with a deadblow mallet.

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#5

Re: Powder Metal Failure

John Lucas

>Paul

I agree with Mark. Although it is possible to turn a bowl with a rough out gouge it's far to easy to get a catch and most rough out gouges have a tang that is too small for this kind of force. Many people have brocken the tangs off of M2 and High carbon tools as well. A bowl gouge has a tang that is 1/2" thick or better depending on size.

someone makes a rough out gouge with a 1/2" bar welded on for the tang but I can't remember who it is. Possible P@N tools. maybe someone will know and post it here.

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#6

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Paul Coppinger

>Mark,

I was definitely roughing side grain. The log had a limb which I should have completely turned off. Then I wouldn't been so far over the rest trying to work on the side. Live and learn.

PAC

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#7

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Paul Coppinger

>Jeff,

On my gouge, the tang was simply driven into the handle. I was able to grab it with vise-grips and hit the handle to extract the broken tang. I then used the same hole but used epoxy to fill any voids.

PAC

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#8

Brad Vietje

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Brad Vietje

>Paul,

I had a similar break in a Hamlet 2060 roughing gouge, though not from a catch -- the dealer who supplied it was more than pleased to take it back and give me a new one -- all I paid was shipping the broken tool back to him. The vendor should replace it with an apology. If its a Hamlet, they will credit the dealer.

The simple truth is that there is a design flaw in these tools -- they need a bigger, beefier tang to compensate for the brittle nature of the metal, and they should not use the same 'ole shape that works with M-2 HSS. I have suggested a shape more like the P&N roughing gouge, but we'll see (...many little voices...)

Safe Spinning,

Brad Vietje

Thetford, VT

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#9

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Fog Tanner

>You are right, it is th P&N roughing gouge that has the round tang. Right now, it is the best looking roughing gouge and will be the next one I get.

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#10

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Paul Coppinger

>Brad,

Mine was a Hamlet so I guess I was a little to quick with my fix. Next time, I will complain louder. I agree with your comments about the design flaw.

PAC

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#11

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>I was pretty sure that you were OK, but wanted to make it clear for any newbie that might read the thread.

Mark

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#12

Re: Powder Metal Failure

RonZ

>If you mentioned ASP 2060, that would be Hamlet. I represent Hamlet here in Israel and know they would consider that a defect in their product and replace it for you. I do know that technocoans will blame anything. Perhaps it was caused by the high prce of gasoline after enduring a tsunami? =o)

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#13

Re: Powder Metal Failure

RonZ

>Henry Taylor and Asley Isles make 1/2" roughing gouges that are the same thickness at the tang.

I had to round some very large squares [10"] to make pillars for a meeting table. I had a 1 1/4" Crown and Hamlet M2 roughing gouges. The Crown kept bending at the tang where as the Hamlet didn't.

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#14

Re: Powder Metal Failure

Paul Coppinger

>Ron,

It was a Hamlet. Who do I contact about replacement?

PAC

Re: Powder Metal Failure

#15

Re: Powder Metal Failure *LINK*

RonZ

>You can contact Sandra at:

sales@hamlet-crafttools.com

Below is their site:


Hamlet

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