bandsaw blade selection

Re: bandsaw blade selection

Hawaii Turner

>Ken, I don't know why you need more than 1 blade for cutting bowl blanks. I cut all of my wood, wet and dry, with a 3/8"-3tpi .032 thick PC(hook) tooth blade. If the wet wood is pitchy, I lubricate it with a spray of Pam, and lately someone posted about a blade lubricating stick, and I tried somethihg that I used for when I cut Aluminum and it seemed to work in keeping the blade clean.

If people are interested, I will attempt to find it's name and a supplier. I've had this stick for over 15 years and it's 2/3 gone.

Aloha, Doug

An answer and a long, needless sermon

John Trant (Baltimore/DC area)

>Hi Ken,

I use a 3 TPI Timberwolf 3/8" blade for almost all of my bandsaw work. I do not need or use a moisture meter and there is no reason to do so for bandsaw work.

-Onto my soapbox-

If there is one single truth about modern woodturning (actually woodworking in general), then it must be that there is an endless supply of toys (excuse me, tools) out there for any and all activities ... and almost none of it is needed. Remember, they were turning bowls and vases for centuries before any of this stuff was invented.

- Climbing higher up the soapbox-

May I suggest that you spend a little more time in front of the lathe working on your technique and shapes and quite worring about your success rate and the next "must have" tool. Just have fun turning! Turn small bowls, boxes, and vases so that you are totally comfortable with the tools, the process, and the final form. If you try to substitute the latest tool/jig/technique for well-earned experience, I am afraid that you may find yourself turning too big, too fast, too deep, too soon. This is an excellent way to get hurt.

- Climbing a bit lower off of the soapbox -

Reading back through this, it sounds terribly "preachy" but I am just a bit concerned. I have watched with pleasure as your enthusism for this hobby grew exponentially and your hunger for the next tool seemed to be unquenchable. However, I would be surprised that you have given yourself sufficient time to be proficient with one tool before UPS was delivering the next. A clue: If you have so many tools that you are having trouble storing them, then you have too many tools (as if there is such a thing), especially for someone as new to the craft as you. Having too many tools is a "red badge of courage" one earns after years of experience and experimentation, not months of plowing through the catalogues.

- Almost off the soap box -

I am terribly sorry if I have thrown a wet blanket on your joy. Is so, please completely disregard everything I have said. Woodturning is an addictive hobby and we are more than willing to offer advise how to defeat a problem, often leading to a new tool/technique. As I see it, you have no technical problems that a little time at the lathe wouldn't correct. I wish you were closer to my neck of the woods so that I could get you in my shop for a little show-n-tell.

- Completely off my soapbox (and my rocker) - With that said, enjoy yourself and I will see you on the net.

John

John said it well....

Terry Daniel

>

Re: bandsaw blade selection

Keith Tompkins

>Ken, if you saw my sorry collection of tools, you would wonder how I manage to get any work done!

RAther than invest in vast quantities of tools, as John stated, practice, practice and then practice some more....don't hesitate to study with the best...that's the best investment of all. Try to make each piece better than the last; quality NOT quantity! Keith

Re: An answer and a long, needless sermon

Jim King

>VERY well said.

Re: An answer and a long, needless sermon

Jim King

>I couldn�t help it, I agree with John. I am posting a photo I have posted before. Our tools are made of old files, car springs and chainsaw bars. It can be done without all the expensive toys.

Re: bandsaw blade selection

Dan Bailey

>I cut approx. 300 bowl blanks a month out of all types of wood and on a 20" band saw and use only one blade. I buy them from www.bandsawblades.com in Florida and have found them to be quite inexpensive and very good service.

I use a 3 hook tooth HEAVY DUTY Blade . I think it's .032 and is known as a furnature blade.

Most of my profesional turning friends have gone to this source.

Re: bandsaw blade followup

ken chase

>Let me explain. What precipitated my obsession about band saw blade. I bought a special 1/2" timberwolf which after very little use pooped out. Art at Suffolk asked if I had cut some dry wood. When I replied yes he told me that the blade should only be used on green material. I bought another and used it to cut some green chinaberry. It barely made it through and the blade was nearly useless in a short time. When I told Suffolk I was told I should use a two tooth if I'm cutting wood over eight inches thick and offered to send me one to try. Thus....

my paranoia and concern about what condition the wood is in. In my previous experience making furniture I used a 3/4" carbide tipped which cut like butter.

Re: bandsaw blade selection *LINK*

Russ Fairfield

>This is a link to my opinions on the topic. There may be something in here that you will find useful.


Bandsaw

Re: bandsaw blade followup

ruth in So. Cal

>Ken, I think you must have your band saw set up incorrectly. I have offered twice recently and once a while back to drive out and give you some help, but you don't appear to need/want it. I would suggest that you go to the bandsaw instructions and run through them again to make sure everything is tensioned and in place the way it should be.

Good luck.

r

Re: bandsaw blade selection

JamieDonaldson

>Ken- you don't need no stinkin' moisture meter, and after we all have collected 50 tools we usually find that we're using about 5 on any regular basis!

Re: bandsaw blade followup

ken chase

>Ruth:

I appreciate your offer but don't really see the need to put you to the trouble of driving all the way out to Paln Desert. I'm new to turning but have a house full of furniture I built over many years. One of my best pieces is a Sam Maloof style rocker I made with primarily the band saw. I have cut my own veneers with the band saw for cabinets I built. I have a pretty good idea how to use a bandsaw and install and track a blade. I spoke to a turner in North Carolina today who had similar problems with the Timberwolf blades. At first I assumed I must be doing something wrong. I had never cut a log before. Now that I've gone through two blades and spoken to other turners who use a similar type blade with no problems I'm thinking maybe it is the product. Sorry this is so long.

I appreciate your help

Ken

Re: bandsaw blade selection

Jerry Whitaker

>You can get the lubrication stick from Eagle America...... 1-800-872-2511 or www.eagle-america.com

In the February Catalog #ED0502, it is on page 54 and the stock# is: 485--7010. It is 1 in. in diameter and 8 inches long and costs only $4.99.

I have a couple of sticks and I really like it. Never used the Pam but it may be just as good and more readily available but at the same time harder and messier to apply.

Re: bandsaw blade followup

Hawaii Turner

>Ken,

While I have never ordered any Timberwolf blades, what I use is probably from the same manufacturer.I don't believe that Suffolk Machinery manufactures the blade band stock, but buys it in bulk rolls from the manufacturer/importer and cuts and welds them together, just as I do.

I have found that sometimes, it's the wood. I once had some Formosan Koa wood that was hard as hell (some friends call it the wood from hell). It was also very dense and heavy. It cut pretty well with a chainsaw, but when I got it home and put it on the band saw, I couldn't make a single cut per blade. What would happen is that the blade would bend in the vertical plane and that would increase the tension so much that either the weld would break, or the saw would stop, and that saw has a 3 hp motor on it. Also, the severe heat generated from binding quickly dulled the cutting edges.

Now, I cut a variety of wood, but mostly Acacia Koa, both wet and dry on either this same bandsaw, or the other that has only a 1 1/2 hp motor with no problems. Both saws use the same blade except for the length and that one is 1/2"-3, and the other is 3/8"-3, same mfg.and metal, and thickness and profile.

Your problem, I suspect might be the type of wood. What is it that you are cutting?

Aloha, Doug

Could not agree more

Dominic Greco in Richboro, PA

>John,

Well said! There is a lot to be said about utilizing the resources/tools you have before acquiring "the next best" tool.

For example: My good buddy Mark Kauder made some truly excellent hollow forms using a Jet Mini. It was only recently that he upgraded to that monster Vega 2400 (and if anyone was ready for that upgrade, it was him). While I wouldn't refer to his woodshop as "minimalist", it also isn't a show case for Woodcraft's latest and newest tools. He has pretty much all the tools he needs to get the job done. And I'd say he does a fantastic job.

Ken: John's advice about getting out and turning is probably the best suggestion. Don't worry that you don't have all the "right" tools at this moment. Get out there and turn. You can ask questions all day here. But nothing will really sink in until to "put the tool to the wood".

And about your success rate, who gives a rat's behind? I blew up (2) platters this past weekend. And God knows how many turned boxes I destroyed last month! (for the record, it's four) The point is that I learned from those mistakes. Remember, it's only wood. It's all around you and sometimes you can get it for free.

Too many people get all wrapped up with acquiring tools and forget the fact that these things were MEANT to work with wood. You can't substitute a new tool for skills. I know one guy who has a shop with all the newest European equipment and I have yet to see project one come out of his shop.

Re: bandsaw blade followup

John K Jordan

>>What would happen is that the blade would bend

>in the vertical plane and that would increase

>the tension so much that either the weld would

>break, or the saw would stop,

In the Band Saw Handbook, Duginski indicates (pg 150-151) that a "barrel cut" is generally caused by insufficient tension, in fact, blade will bow in the wood until it finds a more appropriate tension for that cut, i.e., tensions itself.

He lists some ohter factors, including dull blade, guide adjustment, wheel alignment, wrong blade selection (too narrow, incorrect pitch), insufficient tooth set, uneven sharpening, and feed rate too fast.

I add one other possible factor based on my experience - dirty blade gummed up from previous cuts. Just cleaning and lubricating the blade has helped with problem cuts.

One particularly terrible problem I had with one thick green wood blank went away when I cleaned and sharpened the blade, realigned the wheels and tracking, and increased the tension.

JKJ in East TN

Re: bandsaw blade followup

Carole in VA

>Ditto the cleaning part! Cutting green wood (at least the wood I have been cutting) gums up a blade in a heartbeat and it is almost useless until I clean it. I get the feeling that the heat generated from the gunk also causes the metal to expand, somewhat reducing the tension of the blade, but I may be just imagining that.

Re: bandsaw blade selection

Mike Sloan

>Hi Ken,

If you are cutting up found logs straight out of the desert, how much dirt/sand is on the wood. Are you peeling the bark off, or leaving it on?

A little bit of dirt or sand will dull a blade amazingly quickly.

Mike

Re:Tool Junkie followup

ken chase

>I think I may have not have stated my thoughts in a coherrent fashion. Let me explain. If you alcohol dry rough bowls do you need to purchase alcohol and a scale to weigh the bowls? If you need to cut a blank from a section of a tree trunk do you need a bandsaw blade? If you want to cut a tree into sections do you need a chain saw? If you wish to do a deep hollowform do you need hollowing tools? If you need to sharpen these tools do you need a grinder?

Thanks

Ken

Re: bandsaw blade followup

ken chase

>chinaberry, I believe grown in the Calif desert

Follow up to the "Tool Junkie" followup

Dominic Greco in Richboro, PA

>

No need to get testy Ken. However, I find it funny that me agreeing with John elicited such a response from you.

Re:Tool Junkie followup

Arch

>Hi Ken, It's not always nor never true that if you own two lathes you are an advanced turner, but if you own two gouges you are a tool junkie.

Enjoy doing whatcha doing. There is no rule book, only shared experiences.

Re: Follow up to the "Tool Junkie" followup

ken chase

>Didn't mean to come off testy. Just trying to make a point. Irrespective of what anyone thinks I still need to get more faceplates a 6" tool rest and the list goes on and on. It's clear to me to fully exploit and enjoy the hobby of woodturning there are tools and accessories that are absolutely essential.

If all I wanted to produce were small shallow bowls I agree...there would be no need for some of my purchases.

Thanks for the reply

Ken

Re:Tool Junkie followup

John Trant (Baltimore/DC area)

>Let me comment on each of your points even though I suspect you posed them rhetorically.

If you alcohol dry rough bowls do you need to purchase alcohol and a scale to weigh the bowls?

Yes you need alcohol but no you do not need the scale. I have never used one.

If you need to cut a blank from a section of a tree trunk do you need a bandsaw blade? If you want to cut a tree into sections do you need a chain saw?

I would highly recommend a bandsaw and chainsaw if you are harvesting you own wood. Most newbies don't begin harvesting their own wood until the number of purchased blanks gets too costly. If you are harvesting you own wood, do you need a powerful chainsaw and a 1 HP bandsaw with a 6" extension and special blades? Of course not. I used a benchtop bandsaw and my homeowners chainsaw for quite a while because this is what I had already. Of course, I have since up graded a bit. Also, almost any wood bandsaw blade will work for dry or green wood, but some are better than others. This is a reasonable question, an easy upgrade, and I think we have offered several options. You do not need a moisture meter and I think we have answered that question also.

If you wish to do a deep hollowform do you need hollowing tools? Tools? No. You can start out with a single $45 hollowing tool (boring bar type) to introduce yourself to hollowing. You do not need a whole Don Pencil or Lyle Jamieson system to try out hollowing. No. In fact, I do not recommend these tools to beginners until they learn the physics of hollowing with a boring bar. Actually, I don't recommend deep hollowing to any beginner. Period. This is something that can break your arm, dislocate a finger, or hit you in the face all too fast. For my students, I recommend that they learn about hollowing on bowls first and then graduate to boxes. Small boxes are great because they require precision work through a small opening (although not enclosed), and do not require specialized hollowing tools. Only after they are comfortable with these processes and tools will I teach them the use of a hollowing tool - first in an open vase and later in an enclosed hollowform vessel. Even then, I will cut out a thin segment from the side of the hollowform so they can see their progress. It is important to see how the tools work in order to learn. Afterwards, they can practice working blindly through an small opening in an enclosed hollowform. And all of these forms are small and not very deep.

If you need to sharpen these tools do you need a grinder? Of course, but all you needed was to upgrade the wheel if you had not already. Since you are a proficient woodworker on the flat side, it is likely that you already had a grinder and may have purchased a decient wheel. We offered our opinion as to what was a "decient wheel".

My concern, and I think many have agreed, that you are on the "woodturning fast track" and may get hurt if the difficulties of your projects get ahead of your experience/skills. Please do not take offense. The WC is a very caring group and are willing to help those that ask for it (newbie and professional alike) and are equally willing to caution those that did not. If your skills are progressing rapidly and you are able to put in the time at the lathe, then good on you. All I/we did was suggest that you enjoy the tools that you have a bit longer before you progress to the next level. If I remember correctly, it was only a couple weeks ago that you were asking very basic questions about tool presentation and tear-out.

Again, no offense was meant by any of my/our comments. We are simply suggesting that you reflect upon where you are on the learning curve.

Good luck,

John

PS: This was written early this morning but work got in my way of WC time. Day jobs can be so demanding. ;-)