Turning/Hives connection?

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Carole in VA

>Stress. You could have allergies, but I get the impression you have worked with wood before and were not allergic. I would bet it is stress that you don't even realize is there...from learning to cut big chunks of wood spinning at xxxx rpms, having a few blow up on you, trying to figure out if you are doing something wrong or right, etc. My ex's hive always flared up when he was under stress, even mild stress or anxiety.

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Barry Irby

>Ken, There are woods that will cause hives and other allergic reactions. Someone at Out turning club just passed out a sheet listing many of them. You will get repeated warning about Cocobolo (if you have reacted to it, you will) and other exotics, but this list included many quite ordinary domestic woods. Some require repeated exposures and some may have a respiratory effect. Try searching with Google or on WoodWeb.com and see what you come up with. If were organized at all, I could find the sheet I had just the other day.

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Darryl Hansen

>Ken what have you been turning? Pine by any chance?

Re: Turning/Hives connection? - long

JL

>If you are doing the proper thing, respiratory system wise, your exposure by that route would be limited. Your previous posts have indicated that you are. But the hives may be due to stress as indicated in a previous post.

If you suspect an allergenic connection, go to an allergist or a dermatologist and take some really small chunks of identified wood. They could run a "patch" test to see if you react to any species in particular.

Known bad actors include walnut and it's relatives, various species of juniper, various species of pine and different types of cedar.

I wonder if we could get someone to specialize in "turning" medicine. They would have to have some orthopedic training to diagnose "turning shoulder" and the various muscular and skeletal problems turners come down with as well as allergy medicine for the reactions to different types of wood. It would also help if they were a turner.

Re: Turning/Hives connection? - long

Ed in No.VA

>Yep turned some 10 year old dry poison ivy yesterday and had a small flare up.

Re: me too

Ted Wong

>It's clinical term is called Uticaria, Mine started ten years ago when I was working on an attic remodel. It had the worst mix of insulation, cellulose on top of blown fiberglass on top of rock wool. Dust was rampant and in my younger macho years just worked through the mess with no protective gear. After getting home that day it started. Within an hour I was 75% covered in hives. Yikes!!! I contemplated going to the doctor but within another hour it was subsiding and within another hour it was gone like nothing had happened. Next night, round two and so on after the fourt night I couldn't take the itching any longer and went to urgent care, got a shot of some steroid and a shot of Benedryl. Then suddenly after two weeks of antihistimines it was gone. Flash forward to five years ago I was pulling up a bunch of bushes out back and round two of the hives only this time it lasted for over two monthes. Round three, three years ago went on for five monthes. Now I'm wondering if I'll have a nother episode.

To relate to your story I'd venture to say might be some allergen or microbial spore in the material you are turning that has been unleashed. If you turn green wood I'd be especially careful for I here there is all mannner of micro organisms in wet wood that could be harmful.

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

ken chase

>Chinaberry. And I built a storage chest out of plywood and doug fir. The only other wood I've turned is mulberry, white ash and mesquite.

Re: Turning/Hives connection? - long

ken chase

>Thank your for the imput. You are not the first to suggest stress as a factor. What's problematic is the hive breakout itself is causing stress along with extreme fatigue and depression. I don't really feel stressed when I'm doing what I enjoy in my shop. Hives is a mystery.

Re: me too

ken chase

>Thanks Ted:

The only reason I don't think it's the wood is because I've had hives many years and some of the worst breakouts were times I hadn't done woodworking for an extended period of time. Allergists and dermatologists have not been helpful. I've suspected some foods and eliminated them only to find they were not the cause. I really don't think anyone has figured this out.

Ken

Re: me too

tek-Brunswick, Ohio

>I don't get hives, but to put it bluntly Rockwool sucks! I'd rather work with fiberglass for two days than work with Rockwool for an hour. Just thinking about the stuff makes me itch. I've been a carpenter for 30 years and there aren't too many materials I like less than Rockwool. We used to stuff it in the spaces between the too of a wall and the metal deck above it. Fiberglass doesn't have as high of fire rating. The fire inspector wanted Rockwool. Shudder; cough, cough, itch, itch, itch. Take a cold shower first then turn on the hot water. Cold water keeps your pored closed until most of the fibers are off of you. At least that's what we were told.

Re: Turning/Hives connection? *LINK*

John K Jordan

>The link below has links with some info.

Someone here recently reported alergic reactions to Eastern Red Cedar.

From my reading I understand a wide variety of woods can trigger respiratory and skin alergic reactions in different people, and in general hives can triggered by exposure to an allergen. But consider that your reaction might be unrelated to wood but something entirely different and coincidental, such as a food allergy.

I agree with the advice to see an allergist if you can find a good one.

JKJ in East TN, allergic to many things


Information Concerning Wood Toxicity

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Molly Winton

>I get hives when I get exposure to red cedar, mesquite, and walnut if I don't take precautions like using my respirator, and showering afterwards to get the dust off me. My first reaction to the mesquite was after I had the experience of the beetles and grubs grossing me out as I turned the wood. I'd never reacted to the mesquite prior to that, but believe the increased stress/anxiety of the bugs heightened my reaction to the wood. Good luck with getting rid of the hives. They're no picnic, I know. The last time I had them I would take a half dose of benedryl in the morning, and that kept them at bay for the day.

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

ken chase

>John:Thanks for the information. I looked through the list and concluded nearly every species available is suspect. What a dilemma.

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

JL

>Ken,

How about a few hygenic precautions (just in case it really is wood). There are Tyvek coveralls - pretty much impervious to dust, although a bit warm to wear. You can tape the wrists, so dust won't get up the sleeves. You already are wearing a respirator, right? You have a DC, right? The coveralls and gloves (nitrile - as some people have latex allergies) along with the respirator would minimize any chance of exposure.

Another alternative is to shower after every turning session.

Re: Turning Conditions

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Not to mention "Turner's Elbow" . . .

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

John K Jordan

>>I looked through the list and concluded

>nearly every species available is suspect. What a dilemma.

But remember, what is listed as highly reactive for one wood may be so for me but not for you. The way I understand, you and I have both different physiologies AND different histories of exposure and therefore different levels of sensitization. Such lists by necessity compile statistics from a large sample. The liklihood that any one person is sensitive to all the woods is rare. In fact, some sensitivities are listed as rare in general.

There is a self test you can do (suggested to me by a doctor). Label a number of short pieces of 1st aid tape. Place a small amount of suspected allergens (perhaps sanding dust) in the center of each piece of tape. Tape each piece to some area of freshly washed/dried skin, such as the inside of a forearm. Inspect periodically (every few minutes/hours)for signs of skin reaction.

I hesitated to suggest this earlier since you suspected you may be subject to systemic reactions AND since repeated exposure is reported to increase sensitivity to wood. But in thinking about it, if you were so seriously sensitive to wood that such a test would trigger a life-threatening reaction, I doubt you would be doing any woodworking anyway. If you ARE allergic to specfic woods, seems it would be nice to know which. However, prudence would suggest emergency care be readily available in case of a severe reaction to a self-test, i.e, don't try this in the middle of the desert on a camping trip!

BTW, such a test is very similar to the allergy skin test the doctor will do. Those I've had injected dozens of different drops of highly concentrated common allergens under the skin on the back. However, I don't think my doctor used samples of specific native and tropical woods! He did follow up with a shot of something (antihistime?) to counteract the many welts such a test can produce in an person with general allergies. I also suspect that my latest doctor graduated in the lower half of his class, but that's another story.

JKJ in East TN

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

ken chase

>John:

Thanks again for your thoughtful comments. What you suggest makes sense and I have every intention of doing the test. I'll use the species I now have in my stockpile and see where it goes.

Do you suffer hives also? If so the uticaria message board could be of interest.

Ken

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

John K Jordan

>>Do you suffer hives also? If so the uticaria

>message board could be of interest.

Thankfully, no, although I do have plenty of allergies - house dust (mites), animal danders, pollens, wool, grasses, trees, and a whole bunch of food allergies such as oranges, peanuts, wheat, and legumes (can't imagine how I've survived this long!), with symptoms generally sinus/respiratory/asthma/headaches. I had a continuous headache for well over a decade before I learned what foods to limit! Being aware of the food allergies seems to reduce migraines as well.

However, I do get some skin rash (between fingers, inside elbows, neck, waist) if I turn or chainsaw some woods and don't wash up quick enough afterwards. I'm considering wearing more protective clothing including something with a collar that keeps out dust and chips.

JKJ in East TN

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

mikey

>I work with a lot of wood at my job and in my spare time and for the past several years I have a had a streak that goes from my ankle to my knee. It almost looks like a varicos vein. The dermatologists told me that it is from wood fungus. It is called something like lichen stratus, which means that it attaches to a nerve and grows along that nerve and takes several years to go away and has no know treatment. Hope this helps, because there is some really weird stuff out there. Mike

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Keith Tompkins

>Hi Mike, yes, wood can cause severe problems with allergic reactions. Some woods are especially troublesome.....cocobolo, cedar (red and white) wenge to name a few. I have been working with African blackwood for the last few days; my forearms are all broken out in a rash. This hasn't happened before with me.

Pressure treated wood is used by those in construction, it has it's own set of problems.

I have been told by a fellow turner who is a doctor that spalted wood will create allergies over time but will not infect your lungs with a fungus.

Use precautions, wash after turning, and wear a mask or respirator.

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Anthony

>Lichen planus?

Re: Turning/Hives connection?

Jim King

>I have been working with Bloodwood for 20 plus years and have seen dozens of people work with it and never a reaction. A few weeks ago one of my people became allergic to Bloodwood sawdust. It seems clear that anyone can have a reaction to a species of wood or for that matter things such as food and that does not mean that it will affect others the same. We are all different in our reactions and it seems on top of that our reactions can also change.

I am attaching a photo of the arms of the person affected by the Bloodwood as it was so unusual I took a photo.