Waterlox vs. MTOF

Re: Waterlox vs. MTOF

ken chase

>A word of caution using Waterlox. The problem occurs once you've used about half the can. It subtly skins and requires finite straining. Also...don't shake the can! I did a desk and bartop with the hi-gloss and while it looks teriffic no matter how many coats and how much sanding between I can feel the fine grit in the finish. Maybe on something small like a bowl it won't be difficult but never again for me.

I recently picked up a can fo Formby's Tung oil finish at the local Ace hardware and have been wiping it on a couple bowls. I'm on about the fourth coat and they're starting to look pretty good.

Re: Waterlox vs. MTOF

Paul Coppinger

>Gary,

I am on my second can of Waterlox which does not make me an expert but I really like it over other tung oil finishes (including Minwax, MWTO, which I like). Several reviewers have stated that it has the highest solid content (resin) of all the tung oil finishes and builds the fastest. For a mini-finishing class for our turning club, I prepared a test using a piece of poplar cut in two. On one half was Waterlox and the other Ace HW Tung oil. Each got the same number of coats. At about 4 coats, the Waterlox was noticeably darker but with a more even coating. I wanted to show the darkening effect of Waterlox but was pleased to see the better build-up over the other. On my turnings, I dry sand to 280, then apply Waterlox. After drying half a day, I wet sand with 320 wet-dry paper and Waterlox to make a slurry to fill. The next day, I wet sand with 400 and let dry at least 1/2 a day. Then comes 600, 800, 1000, 1500 and finally 2000, each wet-sanded the same and drying 1/2 a day. I never wipe any excess finish off after wet sanding as the next wet sanding with a higher grit paper will cut back and remove any runs, etc. Then I let it set at least a day to be sure it is cured. It takes me 4 days of applications to build a finish my way. Finally, I Beall buff to get the best deep luster on any finish I have tried including MWTO, Zar, lacquer and shellac. Don't want to start any finishing wars. Hope this helps.

PAC

What's in a name and truth in advertising *LINK*

Russ Fairfield

>It isn't that one finish is any better than the other, its just that there is no similarity to what they are putting on the wood. You should use the one that works for you, and avoid making comparisons. See my discussion of oils and varnishes at the link.

Two big differences. (To the best of my knowledge)

Waterlox is a Tung Oil finish that actually contains real Tung Oil. The Minwax and Formby's aren't.

Calling something a "Tung Oil Finish" is the same as calling all refrigerators a "Frigidaire". "Tung Oil" has become a generic label to describe a "type and quality" of finish for products that don't contain any Tung Oil. There may be some remote association with a small amount of resins that may have been derived from Tung Oil, but there is none in the product. Most of them substitute a modified Soybean Oil and drying agents.

The other difference is in the varnish resins that are used. Waterlox uses phenolic resins, the Minwax uses Polyurethane resins, and that is the reason for the higher shine from the Minwax product.


Oil and varnish finishes

Re: Waterlox vs. MTOF

Duane C.Leach

>I have tryed waterlox and gave up on it. The smell it produces in my small shop is over whelming. So it was back to good old Formbys.

The yellowing affect of some finishes on dark woods gives a deep rich look. While some polyurethane fininhes on dark woods give a lifeless, shallow, almost plastic look. But manufactures are better polyurethane finishes all the time.

Happy turning.

Duane

wet or dry?

DWFII

>I have been intriguesd by the possibilities of wet or dry sanding. I even went out and bought a selection of wet-or-dry sheets from my local Ace Hardware. But I found that in some (many...all?) cases the dark grit of the wet-or-dry migrates to the wood...discolouring light woods especially if they are somewhat porous.

Am I using the wrong product? Am I using the right product wrong?

And a follow-up, if I may...can a piece of wet-or-dry that has been used with tung oil or Waterlox be "washed" and used again?

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Formby's Tung Oil Finish is my go too as well.

Jay in TX (formerly from Ohio)

>

Re: What's in a name and truth in advertising

GaryG in MD

>Russ,

Thanks a lot for your comments and for the link. I had somehow managed to miss your article until now. My bad. I have to say that it is an excellent primer -- just what I needed. I think I have a much better understanding of some of the products and tradeoffs now. Bravo,

Gary

Re: Waterlox vs. MTOF

GaryG in MD

>All,

Thanks for your comments. They have been valuable and interesting.

From what I've heard, three things are clear:

1) you can't trust the product names;

2) wear a respirator when using these products; and

3) Waterlox has to be handled very carefully and kept in small containers, or at least away from any oxygen. So be it; that can be done.

I'll probably keep experimenting with the MTOF since I like it for what I've done so far. When it comes time to change, I'll know it, and I'll know why. That's all part of the learning.

Happy and safe turning and finishing,

Gary

Re: Waterlox vs. MTOF

GaryG in MD

>Paul,

Thanks for your detailed comments. I can see that you understand the importance of the finishing and that you take great pains to get it just right. The two things that attract my attention to a piece are the shape and the finish. After reading your description, I can almost see the luster and feel silk on your peices; I'll bet they're gorgeous.

Gary

Re: wet or dry?

Paul Coppinger

>DW,

For high grit sandpaper, I buy 3M wet-dry for car paint at Walmart in their auto dept. It doesn't have as dark a grit as some. And yes, the dark slurry will darken light wood. I recently used on a catalpa bowl but was very pleased with the overall look, albeit darker than raw catalpa. I think some of the darkening comes from the Waterlox itself. As a test for a recent finishing class, I cut a piece of poplar in 2 and applied Waterlox to one piece and Ace tung oil to the other. After about 4 coats, the Waterlox was getting darker but also building up a faster topcoat.

Several reviewers have stated that Waterlox has the highest solid content(resin) of any tung oil finish. Solids=darkening. Finally, I wipe my wet paper off on a towel and after drying use again. Not sure how long, but on my bench now are pieces of paper that have been used over a dozen times.

Hope this helps,

PAC

Re: wet or dry?

DWFII

>Paul,

Thank you for replying to my question...I was afraid it was going to get "lost."

I will go to Walmart, toot sweet, and look for the 3M wet/dry. I guess there's no wet/dry that is white...I wonder why that is?

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Re: wet or dry?

Russ Fairfield

>The color of wet/dry paper is in the binder that holds the silicon carbide particles to the paper.

If you are coloring the wood using it dry, the paper is getting too hot. Slow down.

If it is transferring when it is wet, it isn't wet enough.

If you can't solve th4e "black" problem, you can also use any sandpaper for wet sanding. Both gqarnet and aluminum-oxide work fine. The only difference is that the binder is not water or oil proof and the grit will come of the paper. The slurry will still cut, and you may find that it sands better that way. The only downside is that you can't reuse the paper again, and the cleanup before going to the next grit may be a bit more difficult