Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

JL

>For square stock, I like either a roughing gouge or a large skew (1 1/4" or 1 1/2"). Do you absolutely need one - maybe not. But it is kinder on your tool rest and on your spindle gouge.

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

Ron in Drums PA

>I use my roughing gouge all the time. The one I use has a very deep profile. Once I knock off the corners I use the sides of the roughing gouge as I would use a skew in planeing mode.

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

Carole in VA

>As I recall, Richard Raffan uses a skew to rough square blocks. If you have been using a skew to rough out spindle stock, more power to you! LOL I'm a newbie and not that comfotable yet roughing to round with anything but my roughing gouge.

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

John Trant (Baltimore/DC area)

>Just to confuse the situation, I have never used a roughing gouge nor have I ever missed it. It is a tool designed for a single use so I do not recommend it to newbies who are just starting to amass tools. To rough out to round, I use a bowl gouge (or sometimes a skew when doing production work with a single tool saves time). As typical, ask 10 turners a how-to question and you will get 11 answers.

John

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

John Lucas

>John

I respectfully disagree about the single use tool. I use my rough out gouge to almost completely turn a a spindle. The wings make good skews which I jokingly refer to as my left hand skew and right hand skew. I do sharpen my rough out gouge to a steeper angle so it cuts cleaner.

The main reason I use is so much is that I like a really sharp skew and it's harder to sharpen than my rough out gouge so I do most of the roughing away of material and shaping with the rough out gouge then switch to the skew and fine tune everything.

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

John K Jordan

>>The wings make good skews which I jokingly refer

>to as my left hand skew and right hand skew.

If you think John is kidding, just go to one of his demos. He even used an axe as a skew!

I personally use the roughing gouge on large, roughing gouge or skew on medium spindles, and a skew, bowl gouge, or spindle gouge to rough small spindle stock. Sometimes for fun I'll rough with a bedan, straight (non-skew) chisel, or parting tool. Anything with a sharp edge seems to work OK.

JKJ in East TN

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

John Trant (Baltimore/DC area)

>Good point, John and quite true. In spite of my flawed insight, I would not encourage a newbie to purchase a roughing gouge over other potential tools as he builds his limited arsenal. Can it be useful? Of course. Is it needed (his original question)? I think not.

I do not want to hijack the thread but I think it would be interesting to hear how others tend to use one tool to do the work of others. Is there an advantage to this that I don't see other than not having to pick up a different tool or simply keeping the inventory of tools low(er)?

This is getting way off the original question, but ...

The roughing gouge is effective on spindles if used as a skew. Of course, then that begs the question of why not use the skew as a skew? Maybe I overstated my origianl point which was that I feel that the roughing gouge is not as versitile as many other tools (a stand which may be questionable). In my mind, the roughing gouge (or a bowl gouge or a scraper, or an axe) can do many of the tasks of spindle work but there are many other tools that can do a far better job and do other jobs that the roughing gouge cannot do.

Venturing even further away from the original question ...

If I had to have a single tool for spindle work (i.e., what is the most versatile tool?), it surely would be a spindle gouge or a skew (at least in my hands). A skew can do everything a roughing gouge can do but it can also be used for so many other things that the roughing gouge cannot do (e.g., facing off, parting, beads, peal cuts, etc). With all this said, I still have to use a gouge for deep smooth coves. Twice I have heard Jacques Escelon (sp) relate the story that his father, whose has been a production spindle turner for 35 years, uses 3 sizes of bedans. Period.

Like I said in the previous post, ask 10 turners a question, and get 11 (or 12) different answers.

John

Wandering way off topic when I should be going home!

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

Keith Tompkins

>Anyone who turns with an axe can't be all bad.....I haven't demoed with an axe yet, although I had to try it for myself. John, did you get any grief for using the axe? LOL

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

John Lucas

>Keith

In all fairness it's actually a side hatchet. I keep it nearyly razor sharp and use it when doing demonstrating green woodworking with my spring pole lathe. I use the hatchet, as well as a pocket knife and wood chisel to show that a skew is really nothing more than a sharpened blade and as long as your on the bevel it's controllable.

I use the skew to show how cutting angles affect the quality of cut and then try to show how these same angles can be duplicated with different parts of the bowl gouge or rough out gouge or spindle gouge. The reason I do this is to try to get people to understand how a cutting edge works so that when they have a problem they might be able to come up with a solution using whatever tool they have.

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

John Lucas

>John

Too many good questions to answer in one post. How about posting them seperately so we can all have a go at them and see what we can learn.

I'll just answer one tonight. I try to see how many different ways I can use a tool for 2 reasons. One is that I might discover a technique that will solve a problem either now or in the future. The other reason is production turning. I use one tool until it won't work for me anymore. Then put it down and grab the next. This speeds things up.

Another reason I already mentioned and that's sharpening. Sharpening takes time, it's necessary but it takes time. If I can save time by either using the best tool for the job or by using a tool that is very quick to sharpen then it will save me time.

Re: Newbie question: Do I need a roughing gouge?

Richard Allen

>Hi Dan

For someone starting out the roughing gouge is a easiest tool to use. Presentation of the cutting edge works well over a wide range of angles. If you want to make non round, spindle orented, wood round then a roughing gouge is going to let you do that faster and with less chance for misshap than any other turning tool.

If you are satisfyed with the speed and ease of use with other tools for the task of making stock round then you would find little advantage in a roughing gouge.

If you want a tool that is a no-brainer for making round spindle stock then a roughing gouge is going to work great.

Good Luck

Richard

Roughing gouge bevel angle?

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>John, to what angle do you sharpen your roughing gouge?

Thanks,

Don

What a unique way to teach/learn...

Stuart Johnson

>"The reason I do this is to try to get people to understand how a cutting edge works so that when they have a problem they might be able to come up with a solution using whatever tool they have."

John, A terrific way to teach and for student to learn. It is too bad more don't take this approach. Any task is easier if you understand not only what but why.

Depends on how it's ground

Brad Vietje

>This is a nice thread, and I agree with John, some of these questions should be taken up individually.

As for the roughing gouge, Michael Hosaluk showed me a neat way of grinding/sharpening -- with a sharpened bevel on the upper edges of the flute at ~90 degrees to the wings, so it can be turned on its side for peeling cuts. A student of his showed him this. He uses it to rough box blanks between centers, then lays the tool over on its side for peeling cuts to form tenons for the chuck and true the ends, and, as John mentioned, uses the wings as right-and left-skews. Going further with this grind(I haven't done this yet), you could turn the tool upside-down, and use the two additional bevels for skews, too...

Safe spinning (tough with ideas like this !),

Brad Vietje

Thetford, VT

Re: Depends on how it's ground

John Lucas

>Brad

Turned upside down the wing is fabulouse for truing up the ends of an endgrain vessel. The wood is traveling past the cutting edge at a very steep angle and gives an extremely clean cut. I usually do this technique with a skew turned with the long point down and start the cut with the handle high. The edge of the tool will start cutting almost vertical and will cut end grain silky smooth. It's probably safer with the rough out gouge because you have the 2 sides of the U on the tool rest supporting the cut.