protection from dust?

Re: protection from dust?

Carole in VA

>Ken, a mask is certainly better than nothing and probably adequate IF it provides a good seal. I couldn't get one that sealed properly and it always fogged up my glasses! The mask does not, however provide impact protection which you WILL need at some point in your turning career! Try to get some sort of face shield to wear over your mask. The air helmets, if you can get or modify one to fit you, become habit very shortly and you don't even notice you have it on.

Re: protection from dust?

Fog Tanner

>The dust you can see is not the problem. The dust down in the less than 1 micron, or submicron, is what does the damage. It bypasses all the mechanisms in your body and goes into your lungs, where it will collect over time. It is biodegradable and it will decompose when the rest of your body does or at least within a hundred years or so. One of those nature things becomming one with the wood.

When it becomes appart, it is too late. I have a 2 hp cyclone with a very good dust hood at the lathe. I can see a stream of dust comming off the tool and into the collector. If I turn cedar, without wearing my Powervisor I get a severe sinus headache which lasts for three days. Which is three days lost work. I have used every paper mask available (all OSHA approved), and I have had a large fan blowing down the lathe. And, with all that unless I have my Powervisor on - sinus problems. I have become sensitized to aromatic cedar over a period of time and even the smallest amount of dust is not pleasant. Ten years ago I had no problems, but today is another story. And I know other turners that have the same problem with other woods.

I also became sesitive to basla dust from 30 years of model building and a lot of in your face hand sanding. I could see the dust when I blew my nose, so I thought that it was getting trapped in the nasal passages. Wrong'o moosebreath, now I have a cheap Jet bag unit strictly for hand sanding balsa wood. And you will not find Balsa on any of the charts for woods that toxic or sesitizing. Its just the amount of the fine dust.

Bottom line is you have to ask yourself what are your lungs worth to you. A cheap paper mask is not worth the price of the longterm damage. Even an Airstream is a cheap price in the long run, which is what I am getting next. The Powervisor and Trend really aren't good enough for the real fine dust that does the real damage over time. That is one of the reasons why they are rated for nusiance dust only. I really have to have both the Powervisor and dust collector going for cedar, one its not enough. Just talk to the professional turners, they all use something along the Airstream or Airmate line. Not a one uses a paper mask in their shop. I asked Raffin about the Airstream he uses in his shop. He has no problems when he turns at home, but after the three week tours he makes doing hands on and demos with no dust protection keeps him out of the shop for two months when he returns home.

Bit of a long response and not a pretty picture, but I am paying the price now for all that dust I made years ago and its not very pleasant. If only we had of known back then.........

Re: protection from dust?

JL

>Ken,

You are using your DC. Typically (that's typically, not always), the vast majority of the sanding dust is going to be collected. This is dependent on the placement of your dust collector hood. Are you always sure that it is in the right place? Are there stray motes of dust that aren't getting sucked away?

Let's talk about "seals" - most OSHA approved dust masks have fairly poor seals to your face. Do you need a helmet? Probably not. A good half face (covers nose and mouth) cartridge style respirator works quite well. Add a face shield to this (definitely a must when turning green wood) and you are probably okay. The half face respirator can also be used during the application of finishing products (polyurethanes, lacquers, etc.) with organic vapor cartridges. That way you won't feel "high as a kite" afterwards. My $0.02.

Re: protection from dust?

John Lucas

>Ken

I am probably not the norm here I don't know but I hate wearing face shields and all the dust stuff. I keep a fan at my back and turn on the dust collector.

If I'm roughing bowls or doing anything where wood may fly I wear a face shield but usually take it off after I get the bowl shaped. I just stand out of the line of fire.

Most of what I turn is small enough not to be a projectile hazard and I feel pretty good about the dust collector picking up the smaller stuff.

Sorry to go against all the safety norms but if I had to wear all that stuff I'd probably quit turning. On the other hand I love turning and if I had an alergy to many woods I'd probably break down and buy the gear.

dust mask vs respirator *LINK*

John K Jordan

>>I couldn't get one that sealed properly and

>it always fogged up my glasses!

I have the same problem with the cheap paper masks - horrible. Most of the moist air seems to exit around your nose and is directed right under your glasses. There are some models that have an exhaust valve in the front that are much better.

I started using industrial respirators very similar to the two in the pictures below. The one on the top without the face shield is quite comfortable and seals well. (The pictures do not show the two filters attached) The exhaust is in the front and it will not fog my glasses. Various filter elements are available (bottom photo) - I bought a supply of the soft filters near the left which are made for dust and particulates. I have the full face version as well, but don't use it as often with the lathe. I use it more when spraying chemicals or working where mold might be present.

I can wear the one without the face shield under a standard shop face shield. It is also easier to put on and remove and far more comfortable than the paper masks that fasten with the annoying rubber bands. The filtering is excellent as these are approved for tightly regulated industrial use. They are cheap too! I have older masks, but I think I saw respirators similar to the one at the top for sale in Home Depot. And they are guaranteed to fit any size head!!

(I grabbed these pictures from the web site in the link below.)

JKJ in East TN




respirators

Re: protection from dust?

Ron in Drums PA

>Take it from someone who has recently suffered a severe asthma attack and had to be taken to the hospital. Wear a helmet with a powered air supply. BTW I developed asthma about 2 years ago.

Yes I do use a 1600CFM dust collector near the turning with a fan blowing away from me towards a powered air filter. I have the triton with two filters. I still need to clean the primary filter and I need to replace the secondary filter because very fine dust clogs them.

As to not being happy wearing a helmet, well all I can say is, if I want to turn, I no longer have a choice but to wear a helmet. It would be nicer to wear a helmet because I want to and not because I have to.

Re: protection from dust?

Matt Berry in Mi

>I agree, once it becomes apparent it is too late. Safety equipment is made for a reason. Sometimes we can't see the dangers of something until it's to late. Breathing wood dust is not good for your lungs, After long exposures to wood dust I found that I was more susceptable to resperatory infections and became a little more sensitive to dust. I had since bought dust collecting devices and it has made a world of difference. You might not have problems now, but just wait 10 years and see how much things change.

Re: protection from dust?

ken chase

>Thanks Ron. So even with the fan, collector and filtration you use the helmet. I think I'm convinced.

Re: dust mask vs respirator

ken chase

>John: You're a good guy to know. Thanks for taking the trouble to post the photos. So you think these are protection enough? And, the helmets not necessary? These look like they may be more constricting than the Triton respirator.

Re: protection from dust?

Bill Howatt

>I use a Triton with the helmet. I have the advantage of not being bothered by helmets, masks whatever after I get them on. I just sort of tune them out.

I use a DC when sanding and my Triton pre-filters still get very dirty.

I know a couple of turners who were both hit on the forehead by flying workpieces. The helmet is a good a thing.

Bill

Re: dust mask vs respirator

John K Jordan

>Ken,

I see several advantages with the forced air helmets - the circulating air is welcome if the shop is hot. The helmet will help protect your noggin. The face shield is built in on some models so you don't have to deal with two things.

However, the industrial respirators probably do a much better job of filtering the air. The filters are made and certified to meet strict government specifications. You can purchase a wide variety of filters for different size particulates and even get cartridges to protect you from volitiles such as shop solvents.

The Trend helmet is nice and I use it, but the filtering method is questionable. The filter material looks cheap and the face seal is iffy. I may have missed it, but I saw no documentation which certified the effectiveness of particulate removal. I don't know about other powered systems. But don't forget that anything is better than nothing!

The industrial respirators may even be overkill for this type of work compared to environments in, say, a chemical factory, especiallly in a home shop with a big exhaust fan (highly recommended by a turner friend) and dust system. I personally want the best filter possible since I have a history of respiratory problems (unrelated to wood dust).

One other thing about respirators - they are personal things not to be shared with another person. But I don't have a problem sharing the Trend with family and friends who want to use the lathe or learn about turning.

BTW, when sanding small things like tops and pens, I often do not wear the full face shield with the respirator since the likliness of face injury is decreased. I do wear safety glasses.

JKJ in East TN

Re: dust mask vs respirator

DWFII

>John,

I looked through the link you posted and I wonder which of the filters you use for dust? Do you have specs on them (the site didn't seem to)...how fine a particle will they stop?

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Re: dust mask vs respirator

John K Jordan

>I bought mine from a local safety supply house and relied on their recommendation. They sold me 3M 2091 P100 filters, about $5 per pair.

I typed 3M 2091 P100 into Google. From one site:

"3M 2091 High Efficiency Particulate Filter P100

The 2091 Particulate filter is designed for protecting against particulates and airborne dust. Meets the toughest of the new NIOSH 42 CFR 84 filtration classifications. It is the most protective 6000 series filter we offer"

From another web site:

"3M 2091 P100 Particulate Filter, Meets the NIOSH CFR filtration classification, P100. The 2091 does so with 3M's new advanced electret media (AEM). Currently, it is the only filter not made from fiberglass components to achieve a P100 rating. Use for all applications that in the past required the use of dust/mist/fume class or HEPA respiratory protection. The 2091 is: light weight, versatile, simple to use, compatible, exceptionally efficient respiratory filter and priced competitively. Fits 7001S, 7002S, 7003S and 6200 face pieces."

And another:

"3M-6291 RESPIRATOR HALF MASK 6000 SERIES

WITH 3M-2091 P100 FILTERS, 24/CS, 3M Particulate Respirator Kit. This kit includes a 6200 half mask respirator and one set of 2091 P100 Particulate Filters. It is NIOSH/MSHA approved. Ideal Set-up for sanding and grinding applications.

JKJ in East TN

Re: protection from dust?

Dennis

>Ken,

I started turning about a year ago using only a dust mask and a plastic shield. After a turning session, I had allergies, which I rarely have, so bad that I had to take a few days off of work.

After talking to other turners and monitoring this site I decided to try to do the best I could, in my small shop (single car garage), to ensure that I could continue turning for many more years.

I ended up with:

1. Triton helmut

2. Jet Dust Collector

3. Jet Filter hanging from ceiling.

Now I don't turn on the lathe without all of the above in operation. It took a little getting use to the helmut, but now I have adapted to it and feel very safe from the lathe and dust.

Just another opinion.

Dennis

Re: dust mask vs respirator

DWFII

>Thanks John...

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Re: dust mask vs respirator

JL

>Having had to live in these respirators for more years than I care to think about. The P100 particulate form with organic vapor cartidges is typically good for particulates down to about 0.1 micron in diameter. (That's about 0.00004") That's assuming that you have taken care of your respirator. You have to clean it, check your inhalation and exhalation valves, mask integrity, fit, etc. They are good. BTW - John - when are you coming down to the city?

Re: protection from dust?

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I could say a lot more, (and have earlier and elsewhere), but for now I'll just note that I use an Airstream for most lathe work and a Powervisor for most power sawing (table, band, mitre, chain). I have two fans (one ceiling mounted, one floor mounted with a filter) directing air over the lathe and out the door. I often fire up my JDS air filter. I usually don't use my dust collector, but even when I do, I know that it isn't going to filter sufficiently (I actually have my air filter intake right above the dust collector hoping to pick up more from the outflow from the dust collector.

I'm totally sold on the Airstream, but for its price. It filters effectively, doen't have belt packs and hoses to get in the way, is relatively comfortable (better than any negative pressure respirator I've encountered), and insures you will always be using effective head and face protection. It also lasts forever and replacement parts have long been readily available.

In the end, any respirator is better than no respirator, and the most effective respirator is the one you can afford to buy and are willing to consistently use. I've been luckly enough to be able to justify an Airstream, but if you can't/don't, then get the best you can afford and will consistently wear. Then continue to upgrade as your finances permit.

Another mini-helmet!

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Only goes to size 8. :-(

Re: Another mini-helmet!

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I suggest you try on one before deciding if that sizing is meaninful for you. I take an 8-1/4 Motorcycle Helmet and I don't have my Airstream fitting harness maxed out. My wife takes an 8-3/8 in Motorcycle Helmet and the Airstream doesn't fit her well, but then she's stuffing a lot of hair in there too. I suspect a guy with shorter (or little) hair may find an Airstream to fit quite adequately well above size 8. If you really want one, I'm sure you could get a trial to see if it fits, or usually someone has these at the big woodworking shows.

Re: Another mini-helmet!

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>Well, of course, Lyn. But I have a lifetime of experience of hats and helmets not being available in my size, so I guess I am used to being disappointed. I read of Ken Chase's experience with the Trend (which is said to expand to 24�"), and had my wife measure the old noggin - 25�". The Trend is what I had in mind, but I have been reading up on alternatives, including your posts.

Thanks for the tips.

8� motorcyle helmet, eh? My last bike (a V65 Magna) self-distructed about 15 years ago, and I don't remember what helmet size I used to wear. But, your experience is encouraging.

Re: Another mini-helmet!

ken chase

>Don:

I ordered a Triton. A friend let me try it on and it fit. The shroud around the bottom appears to be a good idea to keep dust out.

Good luck

Thanks, Ken!

Don Thompson - Cutler Ridge, Florida

>