funny thing about alcohol

Re: funny thing about alcohol

Barbara Gill, Remlik VA

>I remember a similar post back shortly after Dave posted the information about the alcohol soak.

Re: funny thing about alcohol

Fred in NC

>I am not surprised. Different manufacturers and different fomulas.

Re: funny thing about alcohol

DWFII

>Fred,

Have you (or anyone else) found an epoxy ...or any glue for that matter...that will stand the gaff of holding on a waste block while roughing a bowl or vase and go intot he alcohol without becoming toe jam?

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Funny? Why aren't you laughing?

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi DW,

Roger Dunn made the revelation that alcohol dissolves epoxy last November. Since I seldom use waste blocks I had not experienced that problem. Roger has since started using CA glue with out any problems. But then just the other day I read that Dick Parr had a glue block pop off after soaking in alcohol that was attached with CA glue. Epoxy can be thinned with alcohol to retard curing and to facilitate penetration into wood. Now I have to become a glue expert just to dry a few bowls.

I suggest trying polyurethane glue. I believe it is pretty much impervious to solvents after it cures. I have poly glue on my work clothes that has been washed many times and it is still hanging on. Oh yeah, the surfactant in liquid laundry detergent is alcohol so it makes sense that polyurethane glue will stand up to a soaking in alcohol. The draw back is that poly glue needs several hours to cure but if it doesn't separate during soaking it is probably worth it.

I know I am remiss in not testing different types of glue with all the different denatured alcohol formulas. Once the word is out the process will probably stop working and everybody will want their money back. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Dave Smith

I hope the process keeps working until my madrona bowls are dry in Longview, WA.

Re: funny thing about alcohol

Dick Hines

>Never had a proublem with a glue block comming off after saoaking in alcohol. That may be because I don't use glue blocks on wet wood. I alwasy use a chuck on vases and hollow forms. I feel the stress of hollowing is to much for deep forms.

That being said I do use glue blocks on dry wood.

I use CA on dry blocks and ave had no trouble unless it was an oily wood like black wood. Had a few of those come off because I forgot, or was in to much of a hurry to use solvent before Iused the CA.

Re: funny thing about alcohol

Ron in Drums PA

>Yup, I had that problem, good news is we now know how to dissolve expoy.

I started to use thick CA on glue blocks and it holds up well after soaking in alcohol.

Although I have never tried this, I read somewhere that alcohol can be used to dissolve yellow glue to aid in the removal of parts that need to be repaired.

Dave Smith...was: Funny? Why aren't you laughing?

DWFII

>Dave,

You're not PO'd that I posted this query/observation about alcohol and epoxy, are you? If so, let me observe that I am using alcohol for nearly everything I turn. And while the jury is still out on some aspects...at least for me (and don't forget that I am a raw newbie)...nothing can take away from the efforts you have made to develop this process and your willingness to share your knowledge and experiences with fellow woodturners. Certainly my fumbling attempts and my ignorance (I don't think I was reading this forum back in November...if I was, I hadn't yet recognized the significance of the alcohol drying process) in no way reflects on either the efficacy of the process nor the energy you have devoted to revealing it.

And besides, my post was really about epoxy...and what alternatives there might be...because, not having access to much wood and certainly not my first choices, I don't always have pieces large enough to sacrifice even an inch.

So...pardon me if my post hit a nerve, and if it hasn't been said before...thank you for all your efforts.

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

Re: Dave Smith...was: Funny? Why aren't you laughi

DWFII

>Dave,

BTW, Thanks for the advice about poly glue...I'll try it.

DW

In the High Desert of Central Oregon

If you take my seriously we are both in trouble.

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>

Thick CA and not "Gorilla glue"

Roger Dunn

>I don't remember if polyurethane is Gorilla but I think it is. All glue blocks I tried and soaked in alcohol with Gorilla came undone as did all Titebond I, II, and III blocks. Thick CA is the answer.

White vinegar is a thinner and solvent for PVA

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Ron,

If your white or yellow glue gets thick in the bottle add a very small drop of white vinegar. I don't have a scientific definition of a small drop but it is pretty darn small. Shake the bottle for a couple seconds and the glue will spread very nicely.

To loosen PVA glue joints you can soak a rag in white vinegar and place it on the joint. The rag keep the joint moist and reduces the evaporation rate. Warm water will also loosen a PVA glue joint but it is slower. Vinegar is about a 4% solution of acetic acid and water with a ph of around 3.5. Water is naturally on the acidic side since it absorbs carbon dioxide from the air and forms carbonic acid. Since alcohols are more reactive than pure water but less reactive than an acid solution I suspect it will soften PVA glue but not as good as vinegar. OK, that is enough ammunition for the scientific types to start firing at me.

Dave Smith

Full of a lot of useless information but not a very good satirist in Longview, WA.

Thick, is that CPH's 600?

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi Roger,

Thanks for rescuing me again on glue blocks. I get my CA glue from CPH and they list thick CA glue as EM-600. I don't keep thick CA glue on hand so I can't test it for bonding in an alcohol soak but I will test CPH EM-150 medium glue.

Just so I can get things straight.

Apply CA to one or both sides?

Apply CA to one side and spray accelerator to other side?

Twist block when bringing together?

Twist clockwise or counter clockwise?(Just couldn't resist.)

All seriousness aside, there are a variety of denaturants sanctioned by Federal Law to make alcohol unfit for human consumption and thus avoiding being taxed.(I didn't see grapefruit juice on the list.) It is quite possible there is a denaturant in one brand of denatured alcohol that will devolve CA glue. I am assuming that all CA glues are not created equal and that different chemicals used for denaturing ethanol could cause problems. So I was not being totally flippant about testing all the different types of denatured alcohol with different CA glues.

I will write up a blurb on waste blocks and glue to put on my web site. What I need is feedback from people using waste blocks and soaking them in alcohol. Whether they have experienced failure or success. It will be most helpful to report the brand of alcohol and glue used. A list of the denaturants listed on the alcohol can would make life easier for me. When I get enough information I will put it on my website for reference. We should be able to create a good database and resolve the glue block problem.

Dave Smith

I gotta get a life in Lonview, WA.

Dontkno!

Roger Dunn

>I only pay attention to the part that says 'thick - gap filling' and use it. I normally apply it to the waste block and then screw the blank onto it and give it a 90 degree twist so I'm assured a good seal. I usually wait two hours and don't use an accelerant before opening up the inside

Re: glue-blocks and DNA

Karl in IA

>I've used 'Zap-a-gap' and 'Hot Stuff' medium CA on wet wood followed by DNA soak for 24 hrs with no problems. I do make certain the mating surfaces are very flat, use NO accelerator, and clamp for at least an hour. I use 'Sunnyside Corp' DNA which has 3.8% methanol as denaturant. This has worked for me on 30-40 pieces of varying sizes.

Great info Karl, Thanks

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>

Re: White vinegar is a thinner and solvent for PVA

Mainebowlman

>Thanks for the tip, Dave! Got out my old, really thick Elmer's household glue and with a drop of vinegar it's new again. Magic!

Jack