How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Jeremy in LA

>Hi there!

My faceplate on my Jet 1442 bottoms out against the shoulders of the spindle. To be clear, that's the leftmost piece of the faceplate hitting the spindle body to the left of the threads themselves (Hence the usefulness of a plastic washer everyone talks about). The right, or "thread-end" of the spindle never touches the insides of the faceplate. Hope this helps!

- Jeremy

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Fog Tanner

>I have a 16" Delta and 24" Vicmarc and both seat against a shoulder on the spindle. Oneway is the same way. As most of the faceplates have the hole all the way through, it would be hard for them to seat against the end of the hole. Not to mention that you could never get a correct alignment that way. The threads just hold the faceplate to the spindle. The shoulder on the spindle and faceplate are the ones that have to be true and the ones that perfrom the locking/alignment. Same with you chuck, lock against the insert - not the threads.

Yep, just as I remember

John Trant (Baltimore/DC area)

>Thank you. This is exactly what I remeber. The machinist is so passonate about his position, I questioned if the difference was due to the fact that I do not remember the specific about most lathes currently avaliable.

Thanks,

John

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Bill Hale / The Wood Spinner

>I do believe he is blowing smoke up your petute.

So often people speak without knowledge.

Bill

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Hawaii Turner

>John, It's time for you to get a new Machinist. I've been one for almost 40 years and I agree with you. Your argument should be;

1)if it seats on the end of the spindle threads, there will eventually be damage done to the threads on the end of the spindle.

2) the largest "register" will always give the most accuracy and repeatability and prevent any rocking back and forth of the faceplate/chuck, that also would help cause the damage in # 1, above.

Also, in another thread below, someone had trouble with a Delta Midi's chuck stucking onto the spindle. That was caused by not using the Delta supplied washer that is a spacer to make up for the spindle not having a relief groove next to the collar/shoulder. It is stronger that way, but a spacer must be used when the chuck/faceplate is not counterbored to fit over this area.

Aloha, Doug

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>John,

Your machinist appears, with all due respect, to be asking for inaccurate turnings or stuck plates and chucks or bummed threads on the spindle. The threaded shank of the faceplate should be done with a thread relief to allow the stem's rim to seat firmly and accurately against the spindle shoulder. I also use a thin plastic washer to make a better union between nut and shoulder. If you bottom the faceplate without a firm set against the shoulder, any play in the threads will be immediately translated as run-out in the piece's rotation. Turn, remove, and then replace on the spindle and the "wobble point" will have moved so the whole piece will have to be recut before any additional work is done. "Bottoming" on the spindle's shoulder, on the other hand, provides an unchanging reference point and removes any slop in the threads peaks and valleys.

Of course, that's only what I know: I could be wrong.

M

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Don Evans

>John;

One thing to keep in mine, just because he is a machinist, by trade, doesn't mean he has any expertise in that particular area.

With that said, I've not seen every lathe ever made, but of those that I have, they all use the contact area on the left side (NOT the end of the spindle) as the registation point.

It would be very difficult and more expensive to machine all chucks and faceplates so that a stop down inside them is 90 deg. Because the threads are cut at 60 deg one must have the 90 deg registration point to hold the chuck straight.

Also this point much make contact BEFORE it runs out of threads.

I just took a look at my Nova3k and Supernova chuck. There is at least 1/4" between the end of the spindle and bottoming out of chuck.

My metal lathe works the same way, 1945 Logan.

Don

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

Richard Allen

>What a curious subject.

I was at Phil Brown's demo last Saturday. The lathe for use was the BIG Powermatic (24" swing). The Phil had an Axminster chuck (precision 4 jaw). The exposed spindle was so long that the chuck couldn't be fully seated on the spindle. The turning he had prepared didn't run true. At the end of the demo I was helping Phil pack and I noticed that the spindle has a stack of 3 plastic washers. It looked like the washers had been abused (I doubt Phil's short use caused that effect to the washers). I have heard of other lathes which had longer than expected exposed spindles.

We worry about precision and tolerance. But a wood lathe is generally working on wood. And that wood is very likely going to move a lot more, over time, than the tolerances of the lathe. Of course that is no excuse for everything not running true on a wood lathe. My chucks and such all register against the sholder of the spindle.

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

John Lucas

>John

The new powermatics come with a longer spindle so that they can lock the new faceplates on with a setscrew and you can turn or sand in reverse. Many older faceplates and chucks won't bottom out against the back of the spindle which is the correct way for a faceplate to fit. Powermatic will send you a couple of plastic washers to fit on the spindle to take up this space. I checked the accuracy of these washers with my 8" extension for my buffing wheels and it ran perfectly true.

I know vicmarc sells newer inserts for thier chucks which work on the powermatic without the washers. I haven't tried other brands yet.

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

MikeinCapeMay

>Hi John,

On my Vicmarc it seats against a collar. Ask that machinist why those little plastic washers are sold?....they fit between the chuck or faceplate and the collar to ease removal.

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

JamieDonaldson

>I'm surprised that someone hasn't mentioned the reason NOT to use those plastic washers between spindle screw assessories and spindle shoulder- they ruin the metal to metal mating surface tolerance and lead to eccentric runout. They may sometimes help keep spindle assessories from seizing, but why would we demand precision machine surfaces and then diminish that accuracy with a piece of milk jug???

Re: How does your faceplate seat onto the spindle

MikeinCapeMay

>Interesting, I'm happy that hasn't happened for me.

Thanks all! And some info ( -LONG-)

John Trant (Baltimore/DC area)

>Thanks to everyone. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't simply ignorant of some lathe models.

In case you are interested, this question stems from a problem I am having with the seller of a used lathe I purchased recently. Some of you may remember my gloat of having purchased a used 24" Vega Bowl lathe (Model 2400) for $1300 (plus $300 shipping) from eBay. I did not know this at the time but the seller is a group that refurbishes and then sells old woodworking machines. I though the lathe was fairly young (as suggested by the paint color) although used. As it turns out, my re-painted Vega is of the one of Vega's oldest lathes (1992 vintage) and most recently owned by a professional turner.

In spite of these revelations, I was generally pleased with the transaction except I quickly found that the tailstock is a little less than 3/8" out of line with the headstock. After several emails and phone calls with reference to this problem over the last 3 weeks, I finally ask the seller to fix it or allow me to return the lathe. He took exception to this proposal and replied with a very long email frought with mis-statements, errors, and negative inferences upon my character. He contends he is not liable for the tailstock because I did not specifically ask if the tailstock aligned with the headstock prior to bidding. The lathe was advertised as being completely functional but sold "as is". He has a point but I am not sure I would call a lathe with such a severe misalignment as being "fully functional"

Anyway, the question about the faceplate stems from a small point in his last email. He insisted that one of the potential reasons the tail and headstock do not align is because the spindle collar that the faceplate seats upon may be out of line. He insisted the collar is a potential design flaw since chucks and faceplates on most lathes seat against the end of the spindle or on the end of the threads. Like I said, it was a small point among many larger errors but I just want to be perfectly correct so that I didn't feed him any more fuel for arguments.

Bottom line (at least at this time):

Vega Enterprises said they could fix the problem for less than $100 (plus shipping) so I think I will lick my wounds, spend the extra cash, and hope the seller will do the right thing.

Thanks for letting me rant.

John

Re: Protest

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>John,

Have you notified E-bay of the dispute? You need not have "asked" if the parts were properly aligned. That is an obvious and serious defect that can be readily seen on personal inspection so should be disclosed in an e-bay setting. It is a material fact which directly impacts the functionality of a basic system of the machine and makes it unusable and UNSAFE. The seller has an affirmative duty to disclose it or you have the right to reject the item WHEN YOU DISCOVER IT on delivery. At the very least you should note a strong negative comment in the seller's "feedback file."

Mind telling us who this deadbrain is so the rest of the members can avoid the mutt?

M

Re: Protest

John Trant (Baltimore/WashDC)

>Hi Mark,

If the seller does the right thing then I will post the news on the WC. If he burns me, I will let everyone, on every wood site, know who he is and how I was treated. Thanks for your input!

John

Re: Thanks all! And some info ( -LONG-)

Walter Ahlgrim

>Please remember you must post your Ebay feed back within 30 day of the transaction the goal of many bad sellers on Ebay is to talk and make false promises in hopes you will miss the dead line so you can�t leave negative feedback.

Good point. Thanks

John Trant (Baltimore/WashDC)

>